2014 Nationals

[Greg Robertson]

The way it worked when I did it was expensive. I would fly in 2 weeks out from the tournament and set the pattern up in the centre. It was always fairly easy for me to tell what the lanes would play like just looking at the lanes in a few places. If I was worried about the centre being able to run the pattern I would fly back to the centre for the tournament and run the lanes. Normally it was not necessary but there was some places that needed there hand held. Entrys rose by 16% during the times that I set the patterns

 

[Graeme Rose]

Total budget for tech committee = $5k. That wouldn't last very long if we were to send someone to every event! I have no idea of what the budgets are for the other committees.

At present... Kegel QLD Open is in its 4th year and for the first 3 years our limit was 108 entries. We were full or only 1 or 2 places short of full each year. This year we added another squad and that filled up as well (135 entries). This year, for the first time in a while AO/VIC150 was full. It will be interesting to see how the rest of the year goes.

I fly up for the Kegel open (obviously). I usually end up servicing Keon Park's machine and at least make sure the pattern is being laid consistently for the AO. For Melbourne Cup I usually give Dave Mouser a hand in setting up the pattern on their A22 and then let him run the weekend. I got to service WynCity's machine before this year's Youth Cup and set the pattern up ( all in one day, as the centre had only been open a few days). I probably won't get anywhere near any of the other ranked events this year. There is probably an outside chance that I will get to Tenpin City before the Adult Nationals, but I'm not holding my breath.

 

[Greg Robertson]

I just want to make it clear the AMF paid for me to service all the super six tournaments that were hosted in their centres when I did it. The TBA contribution was $0

 

[CHIN]

If as you say bowling centres have over 9 months to test patterns, then they are doing a very poor job in providing an optimal pattern for their event because so many do not match the surface or provide a proper playing field for competitors. Someone isn't telling the truth, either the centre managers are lazy or the TBA is inept in this area or both.

Your kidding, bowling centre managers not giving a sh!t. When did this start happening

 

[becka_girl]

Just out of curiosity, was the Qamf World Cup pattern used this weekend at AO a renamed wtba pattern?

"Apparently" the world cup was laid at AO and VIC150, over 90% of the bowlers this weekend disagree that it was laid because it played nothing like the pattern did in Russia. The heads were non existent.

I am not sure leaving it up to the centres to choose the patterns is the right choice because they probably don't have the skill knowledge to know how that pattern will play at their centre. Surely we would be better getting the professionals to make the decisions.

 

[amagill]

"Apparently" the world cup was laid at AO and VIC150, over 90% of the bowlers this weekend disagree that it was laid because it played nothing like the pattern did in Russia. The heads were non existent.

I am not sure leaving it up to the centres to choose the patterns is the right choice because they probably don't have the skill knowledge to know how that pattern will play at their centre. Surely we would be better getting the professionals to make the decisions.

So, 90% of the people who bowled at Keon Park this last weekend, reckon that it wasn't the world cup pattern that was laid, because it played nothing like it did in Russia. How many people in the field bowled in Russia last year? Wasn't there just 2 people? I'd like to know how 90% of the field knew it didn't play anything like it did in Russia, if they didn't bowl in Russia....

 

[CT]

Cause some of the 90% talked to the 2 bowlers who went and they said it played nothing like it did in Russia.
As a player with a fair bit of experience it certainly appeared to vary in volume to that advertised. It was not consistent with the volume I've seen on patterns with similar volumes in the front end.

I don't think it played that bad but it certainly made life interesting later in the squads.

 

[Schmicko]

^^^Lol, wow..

On a side note, it's interesting that out of the 12 wtba patterns put forward by the technical commitee, none were chosen.. Perhaps there are exemptions available to centres holding ranked events..

 

[becka_girl]

It didn't play how it was advertised.
A lot of people watched the live stream and spoke to our two reps and got a fair idea of how it would play. I am just telling you what I heard on the weekend
I also had bowled on the pattern previously and it certainly felt like a whole different pattern

 

[the mothership]

There's a reason why it didn't play as advertised and it can be summed up in one sentence - the topography at Keon Park!

 

[Greg Robertson]

Thats possibly true. Do you have a topography map of keon park to prove your theory or are your just assuming.

 

[becka_girl]

Thats possibly true. Do you have a topography map of keon park to prove your theory or are your just assuming.

Sam is 100% correct, patterns are known to not play how they are meant to at keon park.

 

[Greg Robertson]

So topography is the only thing that can affect how a pattern plays ? There are so many variables and topography is just one. The surface condition of the lanes is a much more dominant factor. They were one of the first centres in vic to get HPL. It begs the question how long does HPL last ?

 

[CT]

Not long when you never oil the outside 10 boards!

 

[Graeme Rose]

OK, here we go....

Small anomalies in topography can be ignored. Less than 20 thou cross-tilts and the like will only contribute about a 1/4 inch difference in ball path.

Outside of this, gravity wins every time. A lane can be 'legal' as far as sanctioning goes but the combination of crowns, depressions and cross-tilts can deflect a ball 21/2 inches or more from its true path. As a 'kicker'..... the lighter the ball, the greater the deflection.

Most of the older HPL installs (timber approaches is the usual give-away) have an 'uphill' slope on the 1st panel. This reduces the energy on the ball and will cause it to hook earlier or even roll out before it reaches the pocket.

No amount of oil can fix this and it most cases will just make things worse.

The continual use of high ratio patterns has worn away the texture outside of 10 board on most lanes. This seriously degrades the ability of the lane surface to 'hold' onto the oil. Throw water on a freshly polished car and you will get the idea.

At most tournaments not enough time is allowed for the oil to settle after it is applied. Minimum is 20 minutes. If they are bowled on inside of this time, they will be trashed within 10 minutes.

Not last or least is depletion, nothing can stop this..... bad equipment and 'line' choices can ruin the best of patterns within the space of 1 game.

Have fun kids!

 

[Greg Robertson]

I just watch some of the 2013 QAMF world Cup
They were using a Summit S Lane Machine. not a Kegel

 

[the mothership]

Thats possibly true. Do you have a topography map of keon park to prove your theory or are your just assuming.

Hmmm if I remember correctly I did just place 3rd there. Also having practiced on the same pattern in 2 different centres I can say with 100% confidence that the topography there is terrible.

 

[*robbo*]

I Just read some of these comments on the AO pattern, topography etc, coming into this tournament I knew the pattern was the same as in Russia, but I always keep in mind that EVERY CENTRE IS DIFFERENT!, i watched a few videos from Russia to get an idea of how it played, the only things I kept in mind was to take weaker balls and roughly what line to throw, from there I just adjusted, but What I found with pretty much with every bowler at the AO is that no matter what ball or line you through so many shots checked early going high or even Brooklyn, I was using the weakest ball in my bag and was still checking early, I didn't see it happening like this in all the footage I watched from Russia. So yes people, every centre is different!

 

[Michael Little]

Keon Park can possibly be given a pass mark due to the poor topography and how patterns will be affected. But this then begs the question, that if the topography is not so good, why not choose a better centre to host a tournament of this magnitude in. This tournament is our WC qualifier and quite often when you find a centre that plays a certain way, it will always rule out bowlers with particular styles etc, or what I have seen and heard from other people who bowled on the weekend, it ruins a first time tournament experience for new tournament bowlers and they don't understand what has happened. Will they return to another event?

The problem is, that more than just a handful of people are now becoming aware that patterns for some events are being modified in various ways. So this begs the question, why bother making a centre choose a pattern and then due to supposed physical centre issues or because of a perceived lack of high averages, modify it anyway.

I understand perfectly well the WTBA patterns and the advantages for our national team in becoming familiar with how they play. But these patterns are only good for 6 games, maybe 8 at best. Not 10-12-14 games qualifying, not 15 games of matchplay. Have a look at all tournaments around the world, rarely will you see a tournament going on longer than 6-8 games in any one stage between re-oils and if they are, you can be guaranteed that they are choosing a pattern that will hold up. Today's equipment is so aggressive, the oil can't keep up with it and this has probably been the case for a while now. Couple all of this with people not being able to play the patterns properly, and its a recipe for continued disaster.

 

[Graeme Rose]

OK, enough with the 'patterns being modified' rumours. If ANY bowler feels that the pattern being laid isn't what has been shown on the program sheet, approach the tournament director. The tournament director can then ask for a step-through of the pattern on the lane machine or witness an up-load of the pattern to a suitable device so it can be viewed. The TD can also ask the technician to do a volume check on the pattern or the 'calibration pattern' (that will always give you a known result for a given oil pump setting).

At this years Kegel Open, before play had even started, there was a story that most or all of the reverse oil had been removed from the pattern. If anyone had bothered to ask, we already had lane tapes that could show that this wasn't the case.

The only time an altered pattern was used was for the 2011 & 2012 AO/VIC150 and then the altered pattern was posted, for everyone to see, well in advance of the event. The reasons for the alterations were the inclusion of graded bowlers in the field and the surface degradation at the venue.
Some people complained about this, even though the procedure was transparent.... right down to multiple sets of lane tapes. Unless a centre is new, or has new lanes you will always be up against topography and surface degradation issues. For all these older centres 'matching' a pattern to the lanes should be allowed. As long as a transparent process is followed and the resulting pattern is posted, publicly, well before the event. This was the case with last years Asian Seniors and I think everyone involved was very pleased with the result.

As Michael pointed out some types of topography favour certain bowling styles. But it is very rare to have all the lanes in centre to have similar topography. So while certain lanes may favour power players those same players may have trouble with other lanes.

It is also a misconception that all the WTBA patterns are only good for 6 - 8 games. Some have very high oil volumes, some lower, depending on the length of the pattern. There is an upper limit to the amount of oil that you can apply to a lane before it starts to have the opposite effect to what you are trying to achieve! There are far more variables at work that determine the longevity of a pattern besides volume.

I agree that today's equipment can be very aggressive, but it is the player's choice to use this equipment. How would everyone react if we ran a tournament with only 15mL of oil in the pattern? Matching your gear to a pattern when you can't travel to the host centre to practice is one of the most contentious issues we face due to all the factors that determine how a pattern will play. Maybe we should organise a day where a couple of centres in each state all lay the SAME pattern and everyone can compare notes on social media afterwards. At least then you will have an idea of how those centres compare.