2012 TBA Fee's
- Thread starter mcpeter
- Start date
Michael Little
Active Member
A lot of companies that provide goods and services generally now have discounted rates if purchases are made online, just the way things are and there are very few people in this current world who will fall into the category of not having internet themselves or knowing someone who does that can help them out. Just wait for the iPhone application to appear lol.
Would also probably suggest that registrations online are tracked, checked and processed easier making Kelly and the TBA's life a little easier hence the lower price?
You are looking at it from the wrong perspective. It's not a $30 fee, but if you pay in person its $33.. It's a $33 fee, that they are willing to discount if you do the paperwork yourself online. It's not unfair, it's an added bonus. Also, what person doesn't have the internet, or access to the internet? Many-a-people have access to the net at work/school/uni.
Michael Little
Active Member
lol, true @ Ryan, @ Benny Boy, plenty of people don't have the internet, can't afford it etc etc for various reasons, however it is pretty much accessible from just about anywhere these days, but for those that have zero access, I guess it is a godsend they haven't totally stopped using paper and landline telephones yet and at an extra $3 to do it old school, at around .82 of a cent per day, I guess it is something you will need to add to the yearly budget.
jimcross
Active Member
Yes Michael. This is all over a quite ridiculous annual cost, even the $33. When you start annualising the $3 difference - for goodness sake!!
People looking at this thread should have a look at your other post on " AMF Australian Masters Overview" and look at the costs for competing at the Nationals. Now that is a situation worth some thought, time and effort, to see if something can be done about making competing in the Nats more feasable for a wider range of bowlers.
People looking at this thread should have a look at your other post on " AMF Australian Masters Overview" and look at the costs for competing at the Nationals. Now that is a situation worth some thought, time and effort, to see if something can be done about making competing in the Nats more feasable for a wider range of bowlers.
Michael Little
Active Member
Well the extra $3 probably accounts for printing, mailing and other overhead costs that wouldn't be derived from online registrations. I do agree, even $33 for a basic registration fee is a joke, we probably still have one of the lowest registration fees across any sport.
You are right Jim, the costs to travel to these events is quite pricey. The figure I was quoting in the masters topic was loosely based on what friends like Brando or Jase probably would have spent for the week being there with their families and more than likely don't even begin to really tell the whole story. Myself, I went there for 2 nights, bowled 7 events, masters entry, food, petrol and probably spent about 700 doing so all up, and I think that was probably the minimal expenses someone should pay if willing to have a proper go at the Masters event. I won $800.
The TBA over the years has developed some good links with cheaper travel, accom options which have lately seemed to be thwarted by the airlines themselves, ie Virgin and their crap baggage allowance policies, where now even Jetstar and Qantas are miles ahead.
The problem with membership fees is everyone wants value for money instead of just realising these fees are needed just for the basic day to day operational functioning of the sport, the old school brigade were just so used to the old ATBC days where rewards and other things were aplenty but were merely a fascade masking the reality they were severly in the red. People just need to realise that this minimal registration fee barely covers basic expenses to run this sport across the country.
I mean from my point of view, I would be happy to pay more, and whether I was to receive extra benefits or not, I wouldn't really care, but maybe the minimum could be, maybe discount of baggage allowance for airlines again or discount airfares, discount accomodation, car rental etc etc, which would benefit my situation and it is all good to a point, but this merely caters for about 2% of the bowling population that are tournament bowlers. The focus at present and the likely future is always going to be about developing the sport as a whole and not merely catering for the minority.
Where I believe a portion membership fees should be channelled and most are partially directed so I am guessing but to the development of training staff within current bowling centres to become more versed in the basic teaching of bowling skills to newcomers. Every centre, in every town, city or state should have some designated centre only coaches, who are trained well enough in the basics of bowling, ie level 1, that when newcomers arrive in the centre for the social play, they give them every bit of assistance available. There are something like 60 odd registered centres across the whole of Australia, not a lot when you look at it that way. At least two staff from within each centre, ie staff who are/or show dedication to the sport, should be trained in level 1 coaching techniques and become fully certified. I believe this would prove greatly beneficial in social player retention/converting to league bowlers/converting to hooked tournament players. Ask yourself, how often do you go somewhere to try something for the first time and the way you view your experience is more often than not determined by how friendly, supportive and assisting the staff were. Imagine you sucked so bad on your first attempt at bowling you didn't want to come back out of embarrassment? Something that could easily be altered by a dedicated bowling instructor or assistant to give a few points and make you feel at ease with your noobness!
With something simple like this, it becomes a roll on effect, that person might come back for more social outings, become better, eventually start to enquire about leagues, further coaching tips (which can be fowarded to other higher level coaches if available), fast forward to a few years down the track, this one person bowls a regular league, buys a couple of new balls a year, maybe starts to dabble in tournaments and so on etc. This benefits the industry as a whole, income to the centre (most centres revenue comes from approx 40% league base give or take), the proshop guys gets more regular income, this person is paying a regular TBA registration. Now this doesn't seem like all that much effort when the flow on effects will eventually be noticed, perhaps the persons partner becomes involved, their family becomes involved, friends or colleagues etc etc.
Now break down the basic figures, imagine if roughly every centre in the country as a result could attract one new league bowler per week, 52 a year, something that would seem entirely achievable IMO obviously give or take with smaller and bigger centres, now across 60 centres, that is 3120 new league bowlers annually give or take. Now if all of these new bowlers paid their registration fee, either $30 or $33 in centre, which they realistically should have no reason not too (remember that new bowlers don't have the baggage or knowledge of not paying previously), then that is an extra $93600-$102960 heading towards the TBAs coffers. Now say the level 1 coaching course is about $800-900 from memory, if on average there were two per centre, so say 120 soon to be level 1 coaches, this would cost $108000 to set up. This plan would almost pay for itself over a few years, as obviously the TBA can't afford to cover such a huge cost from the get go, but spread out of with further assistance from major industry groups, it certainly could provide a solid source of revenue. Even if the centres were to cover the training costs of their staff which is quite normal in other businesses in todays world. The centre would also see a direct benefit. Say they gained an extra 52 league bowlers during the year, sending two staff to do training at $1800 vs 52 league bowlers with continual league lineage, in centre equipment purchases, money spent at the cafe, money spent by kids and family on amusement machines etc etc. 3 game league, game rates are around 5-6 dollars a game, 40 week season, is $600 per new league bowler, add an extra 5-10 dollars a night for a coffee, soft drink, maybe a sandwich etc etc, another $400 per year minimum, equipment purchases, maybe one ball, pair of shoes for new bowlers, probably another $400, so you have one new bowler who gets hooked on the sport from the decication of a new trained staff member teaching them the fundamentals and they deliver to the centre $1400 worth of minimum income plus add ons during the year, multiply that by the goal of converting 52 new league bowlers, one for each week and you have $72800 of additional income for the centre minus operating expenses, vs an outlay of $1800 for a training course.
Something simple like this outlines just how important it is and how extremely hard the likes of Cara and Co are working to try and unify all interested parties within our sport, such a simple exercise carried out with the backing of all industry groups would prove extremely beneficial to the sport in this country. If registrations don't continue, if the different factions, associations and industry groups all continue to want their own agendas then the sport will die and most will then have nothing to whinge about.
Sorry if the post is a bit jumbled but was just typing as I was thinking lol.
jimcross
Active Member
QUOTE - Michael "Where I believe a portion membership fees should be channelled and most are partially directed so I am guessing but to the development of training staff within current bowling centres to become more versed in the basic teaching of bowling skills to newcomers. Every centre, in every town, city or state should have some designated centre only coaches, who are trained well enough in the basics of bowling, ie level 1, that when newcomers arrive in the centre for the social play, they give them every bit of assistance available. There are something like 60 odd registered centres across the whole of Australia, not a lot when you look at it that way. At least two staff from within each centre, ie staff who are/or show dedication to the sport, should be trained in level 1 coaching techniques and become fully certified. I believe this would prove greatly beneficial in social player retention/converting to league bowlers/converting to hooked tournament players. Ask yourself, how often do you go somewhere to try something for the first time and the way you view your experience is more often than not determined by how friendly, supportive and assisting the staff were. Imagine you sucked so bad on your first attempt at bowling you didn't want to come back out of embarrassment? Something that could easily be altered by a dedicated bowling instructor or assistant to give a few points and make you feel at ease with your noobness!
With something simple like this, it becomes a roll on effect, that person might come back for more social outings, become better, eventually start to enquire about leagues, further coaching tips (which can be fowarded to other higher level coaches if available), fast forward to a few years down the track, this one person bowls a regular league, buys a couple of new balls a year, maybe starts to dabble in tournaments and so on etc. This benefits the industry as a whole, income to the centre (most centres revenue comes from approx 40% league base give or take), the proshop guys gets more regular income, this person is paying a regular TBA registration. Now this doesn't seem like all that much effort when the flow on effects will eventually be noticed, perhaps the persons partner becomes involved, their family becomes involved, friends or colleagues etc etc." End Quote.
Michael, You have been inside my mind, and stolen my memories.!!
You have just described, EXACTLY, what happened at the introduction of Bowling in Australia, and was practiced in every centre I either worked at or bowled in, from the beginning, until I left the industry and bowling in about 1963 or 64ish.
Did it work? It sure did. Virtually everyone who ended up bowling league or, later, tournaments started off by wandering into a centre with family or friends for a night out / social bowl.
When the instructor ( always one on duty) saw that you were obviously beginners, he would come to you, introduce himself and, without being pushy, offer to give you a 'few tips.' So it went from there. In those times almost everyone took up the offer, and had a good time, and came back, many times seeking out more help. And so it went. Leagues grew and grew, and for many, Tournaments followed.
It's not possible, today, in my view to duplicate that exactly. People and times have changed, but it would still have a very healthy effect as you have suggested. Many people today seem to have a 'hang-up' about being shown something - they seem to take an offer of help as a critisism of what they are currently doing, so it requires a bit of tact and diplomacy, and only a percentage of social bowlers would welcome being approached, but I think more than enough to make it work.
With something simple like this, it becomes a roll on effect, that person might come back for more social outings, become better, eventually start to enquire about leagues, further coaching tips (which can be fowarded to other higher level coaches if available), fast forward to a few years down the track, this one person bowls a regular league, buys a couple of new balls a year, maybe starts to dabble in tournaments and so on etc. This benefits the industry as a whole, income to the centre (most centres revenue comes from approx 40% league base give or take), the proshop guys gets more regular income, this person is paying a regular TBA registration. Now this doesn't seem like all that much effort when the flow on effects will eventually be noticed, perhaps the persons partner becomes involved, their family becomes involved, friends or colleagues etc etc." End Quote.
Michael, You have been inside my mind, and stolen my memories.!!
You have just described, EXACTLY, what happened at the introduction of Bowling in Australia, and was practiced in every centre I either worked at or bowled in, from the beginning, until I left the industry and bowling in about 1963 or 64ish.
Did it work? It sure did. Virtually everyone who ended up bowling league or, later, tournaments started off by wandering into a centre with family or friends for a night out / social bowl.
When the instructor ( always one on duty) saw that you were obviously beginners, he would come to you, introduce himself and, without being pushy, offer to give you a 'few tips.' So it went from there. In those times almost everyone took up the offer, and had a good time, and came back, many times seeking out more help. And so it went. Leagues grew and grew, and for many, Tournaments followed.
It's not possible, today, in my view to duplicate that exactly. People and times have changed, but it would still have a very healthy effect as you have suggested. Many people today seem to have a 'hang-up' about being shown something - they seem to take an offer of help as a critisism of what they are currently doing, so it requires a bit of tact and diplomacy, and only a percentage of social bowlers would welcome being approached, but I think more than enough to make it work.
Michael Little
Active Member
I realise the idea is nothing new, but something that can be applied to todays landscape. You are right, people in general are not willing to learn today or listen or believe their time is too precious but that is why I suggested something realistic like averaging 1 person per week. Sure there might be more in one centre than the other and that is all dictated by local population data, but you would think trying to convert approximately 3000 people in a population of 22million shouldn't be such a hard target, it isn't even a real hard sales push, imagine as a salesman only having a target of gaining 52 customers during the year? And the reason why I have posted it in such a fashion is not to confuse this with the already hard working coaches and volunteers who already do this within individual centres. They are seperate to all of this but at some stage down the line will benefit when the newer bowlers outstrip their introductory coaches limitations. I believe that the centre coaches should be actual centre staff, paid by the centre, thereby possibly having the centre paying for their training (alleviating the financial burden to TBA, but injecting some money back to the TBA), this allows the centre to then protect its investment as they are the ones who directly reap the benefits from gaining additional league bowlers and because they have staff trained properly, allows the staff to do their job more productively, and will probably assist to retain them longer in the industry. It gives the centres motivation towards doing this. If the goal of 52 additional league bowlers is achieved, that is approximately and extra $78k in income for the year, after overheads and expenses, that is probably a staff members wages etc.
Obviously newly trained staff would also pick their targets and not just go up to every person walking in, be just as annoying as the raffle ticket sellers in shopping centres or those trying to get your to donate to heart research, you tend to veer to other side of the shops to avoid them. This just then becomes counterproductive.
I have posted it elsewhere, but this is how I started after going on a school trip, I said I wanted to go back and one of the staff (Maryellen - no longer there) at Caboolture back in the day took some time to give me pointers and make my introduction easier. All very important for an 11 year old child IMO. And here I am, still bowling, after giving away other sports I was heavily involved in at the time, swimming, golf, tennis, soccer and cricket.
lol
Easy Tiger
Active Member
Jim and Michael, great ideas, however to make them successful centres need to want to push league bowling. I am seeing less and less focus on leagues as the years go by, and more and more on social bowling. Back when I was working for AMF a few years ago counter staff had to approach social bowlers to try and get them to join a league. I'm not saying it never happens now, but I personally haven't seen it in years..
League bowlers in a number of centres seem to be treated as second class citizens these days, I know in my centre I am not made to feel valued as a regular customer and there is a good chance I will not be returning next year, to the centre but also possibly the game itself.
League bowlers in a number of centres seem to be treated as second class citizens these days, I know in my centre I am not made to feel valued as a regular customer and there is a good chance I will not be returning next year, to the centre but also possibly the game itself.
Michael Little
Active Member
The strange thing is, I am sure Jordan and the rest of the AMF crew among other centre chains and independants surely recognise that league bowlers provide around 35-40% of their revenue and is a guaranteed constant stream of income. Alienating these guys is a sin and will generally come down to poor individual centre management and internal policies. Without league bowlers, centres will be screwed and many would not survive for too long.
I think the general perception as to why league bowlers are treated so poorly these days is because we/they are the ones who usually complain about something not being right, ie crap approaches, bad food service, bad food, poor customer service etc etc the list can go on, yet if staff and the centre was doing everything correctly in the first place, would bowlers find the need to complain so much about facilities that are on a lot of occasions sub standard to what they should expect?
TBA have developed an "Instructors" Course which will be a pre requisite to Level1 coaching courses
This course is at the ASC for approval
It is being supported by AMF to have staff do the course
It will teach the very basics, No drills
We did run a lot of Level 1 courses last year with a subsidy by the TBA
AMF and independants did several courses in each State, lots of people
did the courses and lots of Staff in Centres did the course
I really don't know how many of those people are out there helping
new or existing bowlers with coaching
We are trying !
Cheers
Geoff
Michael Little
Active Member
I think the key as Geoff has stated as already starting to occur and what I thought may have already been happening is that the centre, bowling group or otherwise are the ones who commit their own staff to this training, so it is seen as an investment in their own business, they are more likely to support it, give it the proper attention it needs and therefore continue to develop it.
IMO it is all well and good to employ staff because it is a retail position or customer service position, but you also need to have extremely knowledgable staff to provide sport specific information. Would your experience be better walking into a car dealership and talking to just a salesperson with limited knowledge or someone who is extremely knowledgeable and passionate about their brand or industry?
Roysa
Well-Known Member
I dont disagree Michael, but how many centre managers do you know that would knock back free labour from someone asking if they had any people who query about coaching?
Who knows some of these potential newbies might get hooked (excuse the pun) and do a John Velo and buy a few balls in the first year from that centres pro shop. They might practise 6 games a week... its all $ in the til.
Who knows some of these potential newbies might get hooked (excuse the pun) and do a John Velo and buy a few balls in the first year from that centres pro shop. They might practise 6 games a week... its all $ in the til.
Michael Little
Active Member
Certainly not discounting it at all, there are plenty of these volunteer people around who just do it for the love of the sport and they are just as important as those that are paid to do what they should in promoting additional customers. Unfortunately there are plenty of bowling centre proprietors who may or may not have directions from up above them to run the business in a certain manner and will not give two hoots about a volunteer assisting newbies into the sport. All they care about are the birthday parties and social play, disco bowling blah blah, because to them the core of their income will never go away. Pick the holes in that line of thinking.
I think the change needs to come from within the industry as surely centres, bowling proprietor groups recognise how important a good league base is to survival, piss on the league bowlers too much and they leave, and if you aren't continually promoting the benefits to new social players, the well will soon dry up.
As mentioned in one of my previous posts, just by doing what should probably be the absolute minimum, 52 new bowlers recruited during the year, that is probably a minimum of $78k in additional revenue for the year if not more in reality. Most new bowlers if developed and coaxed right, will probably join two leagues thereby potentially doubling that figure etc etc, not to mentioned add ons ie equipment purchases.
