I tend to agree with what Paul is saying. The idea of having the 8 pins should be reflective of your average not your sex. I think what Chris and Ralph were saying about if you are under 190 or maybe 185 average that you should get the 8 pins makes sense. I think 185 because that may encourage more lower average men to bowl also. Personally I bowl for the experience and to improve my bowling on more challenging conditions.
2011 Event 1 - Sunday 6th Feb at Mentone bowl
- Thread starter Finchy
- Start date
i would bowl to gain the experience and not worry about my scores whether i had a handicap or not. i've only ever bowled the one VSS event and enjoyed it. unfortunately as much as i would like to bowl more VSS events they generally clash with other commitments. that said i would probably bowl in these events even if there wasn't a handicap as its good to bowl on different patterns
tonx
New Member
No issues! I'm sexist. I don't know the figures in difference in average between males and females worldwide (last year it was 187 for men, and 176 for women). I also don't know what works worldwide (euro and asian tours), and I don't personally coach the majority of the females that enter the majority of the events.
In truth I started the VSS just so I could show how superior males are to females. I also contributed significantly out of my own pocket just to prove that point. In fact, the sheer thought of trying to increase entries to events is sexist, racist, and politically incorrect.
Have fun finishing 1 spot higher, and losing female entries to every event. Getting that extra $10 at the end of the tournament must really mean that much to you. Don't say it doesn't, because you wouldn't whinge about it (not to mention the comments you make within earshot of the females while they are bowling) if there wasn't a personal gain in it for you.
JB beat me in Bendigo after I outaveraged the field by 20 pins a game. Do you think my comments were "you shouldn't get the 8 pins per game" or were they "well done JB, you deserved to win"
I guess that really does make me sexist. Idiot.
Give lower bowlers furthur incentive to enter the tournaments, and give them the handicap as well. Just don't do anything stupid to alienate entries.
In truth I started the VSS just so I could show how superior males are to females. I also contributed significantly out of my own pocket just to prove that point. In fact, the sheer thought of trying to increase entries to events is sexist, racist, and politically incorrect.
Have fun finishing 1 spot higher, and losing female entries to every event. Getting that extra $10 at the end of the tournament must really mean that much to you. Don't say it doesn't, because you wouldn't whinge about it (not to mention the comments you make within earshot of the females while they are bowling) if there wasn't a personal gain in it for you.
JB beat me in Bendigo after I outaveraged the field by 20 pins a game. Do you think my comments were "you shouldn't get the 8 pins per game" or were they "well done JB, you deserved to win"
I guess that really does make me sexist. Idiot.
Give lower bowlers furthur incentive to enter the tournaments, and give them the handicap as well. Just don't do anything stupid to alienate entries.
Schmicko
King of the Cabbo Carry
I was of the belief that the 8pin headstart for women was only to encourage more female entries, not to make anyone feel 2nd best.
If the womens entries were up last year from the previous year, it's obviously working..
IMO there shouldn't be a cut off ave as bowler1(190ave) gets nothing, whilst bowler2(189ave) gets 8 pins?? Unless there is a sliding handicap, for example
190ave=0hcp
189ave=1hcp
188ave=2hcp etc. Max of 8hcp
my .2c
cheers
If the womens entries were up last year from the previous year, it's obviously working..
IMO there shouldn't be a cut off ave as bowler1(190ave) gets nothing, whilst bowler2(189ave) gets 8 pins?? Unless there is a sliding handicap, for example
190ave=0hcp
189ave=1hcp
188ave=2hcp etc. Max of 8hcp
my .2c
cheers
bluey
Member
If changes are to be made it must be at the start of the series, not half way through. I just don't see why a 200+ ave bowler should get handicap over another 200+ ave bowler on the grounds of gender. There are many low ave men that come and bowl these events too, should they be disadvantaged?
Phluff
Member
Haven't been online for a few days due to work.
I'll start by pointing out that in the 4 year history of the Victorian Sports Series, no female entering multiple events has finished the year with a 200+ average. The highest Female average for 2010 was Christine Clarke with a 190 average at Bendigo. This is a Sports Series, and as a result, league averages mean nothing.
The reason behind the handicap system was to encourage more female participation in the series and to level the playing field on sports conditions. To that end, it has achieved it's goal. In the past 4 years of the VSS we have seen an increase in the number of individual female entries and have had 2 female winners.
On different oil conditions, sometimes you need a higher rev rate, sometimes more power. In these regards, male bowlers have an advantage over their female counterparts. That is why the accepted difference in averages is 8 pins. This is why females in mixed events are given 8 pins at international events, regardless of their entering average (See any EBT or most ABF events.) It's not a random figure.
With that said, there will be no change to the 8 pins handicap for Female bowlers for the 2011 series with the exception that any Female bowler who has won a VSS event in the previous 12 months shall not recieve the handicap.
Now, onto the first Event.
Entry List:
1. Jane Finch
2. Ralph Harford
3. Ryan Burton
4. Chris Castle
5. Rebecca Robinson
6. Mac Stewart
7. Andrew Thorpe
8. Elliott Batiste
9. Matt Perrella
10. Michael Wilson
11. Vanessa Pappin
12. Kirsten Ford
13. Craig Ryan
14. Mick Brunhierl
15. Steve Toth
16. Darren Bianchi
17. Barry Wicks
18. Scott Morris
19. Gavin Cox
20. Vi Huynh
21. Mick Carlsson
22. Carl Quaremba
23. extra SA bowler
24. Allan Bamford
25. Karen Weston
26. Ted Parsell
27. Trent Matthews
28. Kevin Clunies-Ross
29. Jeanette Baker
30. Narelle Baker (to be confirmed)
31. Bec Whiting
32. Emily Robertson
33. Damien Lowry
34. Ivan Aranda
35. Joseph Moraitis
36. Paul Robinson
37. Aimee Robinson
38. Alex Lalande
39. Giao Nguyen
40. Brendan Howe
41. Jordan Bunphim
I'll start by pointing out that in the 4 year history of the Victorian Sports Series, no female entering multiple events has finished the year with a 200+ average. The highest Female average for 2010 was Christine Clarke with a 190 average at Bendigo. This is a Sports Series, and as a result, league averages mean nothing.
The reason behind the handicap system was to encourage more female participation in the series and to level the playing field on sports conditions. To that end, it has achieved it's goal. In the past 4 years of the VSS we have seen an increase in the number of individual female entries and have had 2 female winners.
On different oil conditions, sometimes you need a higher rev rate, sometimes more power. In these regards, male bowlers have an advantage over their female counterparts. That is why the accepted difference in averages is 8 pins. This is why females in mixed events are given 8 pins at international events, regardless of their entering average (See any EBT or most ABF events.) It's not a random figure.
With that said, there will be no change to the 8 pins handicap for Female bowlers for the 2011 series with the exception that any Female bowler who has won a VSS event in the previous 12 months shall not recieve the handicap.
Now, onto the first Event.
Entry List:
1. Jane Finch
2. Ralph Harford
3. Ryan Burton
4. Chris Castle
5. Rebecca Robinson
6. Mac Stewart
7. Andrew Thorpe
8. Elliott Batiste
9. Matt Perrella
10. Michael Wilson
11. Vanessa Pappin
12. Kirsten Ford
13. Craig Ryan
14. Mick Brunhierl
15. Steve Toth
16. Darren Bianchi
17. Barry Wicks
18. Scott Morris
19. Gavin Cox
20. Vi Huynh
21. Mick Carlsson
22. Carl Quaremba
23. extra SA bowler
24. Allan Bamford
25. Karen Weston
26. Ted Parsell
27. Trent Matthews
28. Kevin Clunies-Ross
29. Jeanette Baker
30. Narelle Baker (to be confirmed)
31. Bec Whiting
32. Emily Robertson
33. Damien Lowry
34. Ivan Aranda
35. Joseph Moraitis
36. Paul Robinson
37. Aimee Robinson
38. Alex Lalande
39. Giao Nguyen
40. Brendan Howe
41. Jordan Bunphim
onebungknee
Member
can you please add Karen Newman to the list
Thanks
Thanks
Finchy
Member
Hi All,
Please note that Warren is running a skins tournament this Sunday (30th January) and a free entry into the VSS tournament is up for grabs in addition to the skins prizes.
See the thread in the Vic forum to register your interest or ring Mentone bowl 95831244.
The pattern he is laying down is the Mexico pattern which is the same as the VSS event.
Thanks Warren for your support!!
Please note that Warren is running a skins tournament this Sunday (30th January) and a free entry into the VSS tournament is up for grabs in addition to the skins prizes.
See the thread in the Vic forum to register your interest or ring Mentone bowl 95831244.
The pattern he is laying down is the Mexico pattern which is the same as the VSS event.
Thanks Warren for your support!!
becka_girl
Proud Vic Chick
Sorry to do this but can you please remove Bec Whiting?
Thanks
Thanks
Phluff
Member
Entry List:
1. Jane Finch
2. Ralph Harford
3. Ryan Burton
4. Chris Castle
5. Rebecca Robinson
6. Mac Stewart
7. Andrew Thorpe
8. Elliott Batiste
9. Matt Perrella
10. Michael Wilson
11. Vanessa Pappin
12. Kirsten Ford
13. Craig Ryan
14. Mick Brunhierl
15. Steve Toth
16. Darren Bianchi
17. Barry Wicks
18. Scott Morris
19. Gavin Cox
20. Vi Huynh
21. Mick Carlsson
22. Carl Quaremba
23. extra SA bowler
24. Allan Bamford
25. Karen Weston
26. Ted Parsell
27. Trent Matthews
28. Kevin Clunies-Ross
29. Jeanette Baker
30. Narelle Baker
31. Karen Newman
32. Emily Robertson
33. Damien Lowry
34. Ivan Aranda
35. Alex Lalande
36. Paul Robinson
37. Aimee Robinson
38. Alex Lalande
39. Giao Nguyen
40. Brendan Howe
41. Jason Drake
42. Nick Membery
43. James Owen
1. Jane Finch
2. Ralph Harford
3. Ryan Burton
4. Chris Castle
5. Rebecca Robinson
6. Mac Stewart
7. Andrew Thorpe
8. Elliott Batiste
9. Matt Perrella
10. Michael Wilson
11. Vanessa Pappin
12. Kirsten Ford
13. Craig Ryan
14. Mick Brunhierl
15. Steve Toth
16. Darren Bianchi
17. Barry Wicks
18. Scott Morris
19. Gavin Cox
20. Vi Huynh
21. Mick Carlsson
22. Carl Quaremba
23. extra SA bowler
24. Allan Bamford
25. Karen Weston
26. Ted Parsell
27. Trent Matthews
28. Kevin Clunies-Ross
29. Jeanette Baker
30. Narelle Baker
31. Karen Newman
32. Emily Robertson
33. Damien Lowry
34. Ivan Aranda
35. Alex Lalande
36. Paul Robinson
37. Aimee Robinson
38. Alex Lalande
39. Giao Nguyen
40. Brendan Howe
41. Jason Drake
42. Nick Membery
43. James Owen
Joel Lovegrove
New Member
Hi,
I spoke to Warren on Sunday, however could you please add Joel Lovegrove to the list as well?
Regards,
Joel
I spoke to Warren on Sunday, however could you please add Joel Lovegrove to the list as well?
Regards,
Joel
