2010 Australian Adult team announced
- Thread starter Jase
- Start date
Michael Little
Active Member
I would say they look, but why would they want to? A bit damned if they do, damned if they don't really.
It would be nice, but often turns into non constructive ramblings judging from any previous attempts.
Michael Little
Active Member
Sorry for the long post again but stiff.
I can understand what you are saying Pete, but I don’t think it is that the board has no vision; they are just hamstrung in what they can do with what little financials they have. Everyone on here wants the world for nothing, they want luxury service but in reality it is all based on a janitor’s budget. Everyone needs to remember that apart from Cara and Kel, these are unpaid positions and people are donating their own time and effort for these roles.
Unfortunately people are out there not wanting to bother anymore like because they don’t see a brighter future, it is understandable because people have been sh*t on previously for their ideas, how long do you hit your head against a brick wall before either you fall over or the wall moves? What is more likely to happen?
How to get paid rep teams?
Start from the bottom. Everyone needs to remember that rep teams in the bowling scene make a small percentage, but a very important part to the success of bowling as a sport. It all goes in circles but imagine if we get to the stage of funded teams that don’t have to pay to go OS to rep their country. These guys and girls have more time and funds to also use towards their own bowling careers, tournaments etc, they improve their skills, they can spend time to promote the sport they didnt have beore, in turn better publicity, having a physical presence out there in the public eye. I don’t think anyone has done it better than Belmo and also Lynne Clay with some of the miracles she has achieved. It has been a truckload of hard work and is starting to pay off, but after them, what is there?
1. Starting from the bottom means that. How can a national organisation be expected to fund everything people want them to do when the money isn’t there? People don’t want to fork out for memberships because all they see is what is in it for me, which by the way is fair enough, money is tight. But imagine the funds available if we had the similar system 10 years ago where every league bowler also had to be a member? Say roughly 40000 league bowlers nationally at $25 a pop? Sounds like a good total sum to start with, but in reality maybe only a quarter are, WHY? If we get away from the "it’s all about me and what’s in it for me?" syndrome and people just accept that they should have a national membership, half the problems would be solved. No other sport that I am aware of have a national body that over the years has been willing to accept that only some of our participants can be members, that is of course if they want to. There may not be much of a return for the first year but people need to think longer term on this one.
2. Better funding should mean starting at the grass roots. Who remembers when they started bowling, centre associations or area associations? They often helped fundraise for local teams or individual bowlers to excel and a host of other purposes, but why not use them for other reasons? As a source of information and help to newer bowlers to the sport. Part of the membership should be used to help them fund activities in conjunction with centres to promote the sport. These people will always probably be volunteers who love the sport, but why should they pay out of their own pocket to help. I was impressed to see last night at Mayfield they had learn to bowl classes, good initiative, if not a simple idea that is certainly not new, but how many implement it? How do we keep people coming back?
3. Assist to develop better coaches and/or coaching systems. Why are other countries successful from their top level systems all the way down? Because they have the funding and are continually trying to improve. They understand the importance of having technically skilled people and a good structure in place for natural progression. How many bowlers out there now, have a coach who has never really had any formal training, doesn’t hold any certifications, but has a wealth of bowling knowledge from being a sponge over many years? They love coaching because they have a genuine love for the game. Imagine how much further they could help if they were kept up to date on the sport as it evolves and were given tools to help them further? Where does the money come from? Funding from memberships? Who does it help? Everyone. It filters down, to hopefully the point of coaches helping other coaches at lower levels etc etc.
4. Get a physical presence back out there, from my understanding QLD and WA have been successful in the past with school visits, port a bowl or similar set ups. This is but one part of it, but it can't be a coincidence that a state which has looked at the bigger picture for a while now, also has the highest tournament participation numbers in its tournaments across the country, has or had probably the better state circuit and has good member numbers across both organisations. Why can this state achieve almost as much or similar funding to the national one? Sure a lot of individual effort has been put in and people will always have different ideas, but everything seems to fall into place, whether it be from tournaments or just promoting the sport. Where does the funding come from? Membership base and government funding! Who does it benefit? Everyone! If the funding is there to be given to the other states from TBA, then they can also show the effort, processes and structures for their own individual governments and this will help achieve their own funding in the longer term.
5. Communication will help a great deal too. Who out there knows the channels they can go through to find out information? Who knows who their state or local reps are? What if a new league bowler who recently became a member wanted to know? Proprietors and centres should be smart enough to know they cannot cope without bowling as a sport and not just as a commercial enterprise. More needs to happen on the basic level so that this information is readily available for those that need it. We have more ways of communicating with everyone than ever before, so why not utilize these tools. This may sound like a bit of a left field idea, but why not utilize something like Facebook or similar to promote the TBA or the sport in general with the main push coming from the TBA, just about everyone has Facebook or similar and you will be surprised at the amount of companies heading down this path as free advertising. People couldn’t be arsed going to the TBA website half the time but half of these people spend half their life on Facebook. It certainly isn’t a new idea, but could be an effective tool if used properly. Industry businesses can channel their information through as well. I know I wouldn’t have a clue as to what happens say within AMF or its newsletter or if there even is one anymore, no AMF centres in Newcastle. Out of sight out of mind really.
Communication and transparency is important to development as well. How do we have a systematic approach and a developed pathway into representative teams without the funds behind it all? We can't and you now have this situation of totally self funded teams. There has always been the need for a pathway to rep level teams, whether it be on a local level for association challenges, state level or national. Who will this benefit? Everyone on some level, some may not have any aspirations to be in rep teams, but for those that do, they know how to get there. This flows onto communicating properly for feedback. How do these players improve? They need input from somewhere. This is why I am not totally against a paid national coach as long as part of their role is to develop a structure and pathways for these teams. There needs to be a visible or tangible return for the investment.
6. Awards, who doesn’t love an award, but who wants to pay for them? What about the long term picture where in a few years, people possibly won’t? How does that happen? Building paying membership numbers, having membership under one organisation so everyone can benefit equally. Would this not be ideal instead of 52 different factions out there? They all have had their good and bad ideas over time, but why not pool it all together for the future of the sport? Bowling is probably no different to any other sport, as there will always be people with their own agendas, but none of it helps move the sport to a successful future, it is just plain pathetic. Not having awards being paid for as part of membership seems to be part of the issue as to why people aren’t prepared to join. People just have to be realistic, this stuff costs money and back in the day when people were getting their awards, the organisation was going backwards due to these costs, even some individuals were financing this out of their own personal capital/business to keep it going.
None of this will be achievable without the support from the members and a bit of patience but all of it could be achievable with the right funding. The sport cannot continue to cope with dribs and drabs of support in its current form without something giving (at the moment it is rep teams). Improving membership will always be the key, I guess it is up to everyone out there who proclaims to love the support as to whether they want to contribute or sit there and sprout the same crap they were saying 5 years ago.
Monologue over.
DIECAST NUT
Member
Mick,
Mate,i think you have hit the nail on the head, we have to many different organizations in Australia, i think that is half our problem, we need 1 governing body and 1 board in each state, so we can stream line the information bowlers need to get what they need.
we also need TBA, AMF and Private center owners, to come up with a unified business agreement, all leagues are sanctioned and all league bowlers are members of the sport. they can agree on a cost to cover league sanctions per center,
As for individual membership, the current system doesn't work especially when it comes to rep teams, as the selection criteria is based on ranking points, so why pay $55 for membership when you are not given the opportunity rep, your country, and most of us dont have the access to money to go every ranked tournament, as 99% of us earn a general wage and have all the everyday leaving expenses, so as bowlers who what to bowl in tournaments have to pick and choose what they can go to, at the start of the year, then the availability of money around the time of the tournament will determine whether you bowl or no, i dont know about you bout i dont have $1000 need for every tournament that is on, especially ranked events.
I think training squads are i good idea, if we had a national and state squads in each division is good as will show people how to step up into a possible Australian team, the squad sizes should have a limit but, people can come in and out them, as people may get injured, work commitment etc, will change there commitments.
the training days or weekends should be used as a showcase the sport, assist in coaching of all levels aswell as have some fun with general watchers, such as locals v squad challenge, because then the coaches, managers and squad members, help promote the game at grass roots, and for the local bowler show that they can get something out of sport, with a little effort,
the squad must train all over the state so we can access all bowling communities, as for national teams a little different as you will have people in different states, but the general principle will apply, for example NSW national members would have a training weekend with national or assistant coaches and managers, then the following month they would the same in QLD, so basically instead of 20 bowlers flying into one state, costing bowlers a fortune, it would cheaper to fly coaches and managers from state to state to assess the bowlers in there state and with most centers having similar oiling machines they can still train on the same patterns coaches want you to bowl on.
I think to fix bowling in Australia we need to start with the top, having 1 governing body, 1 state body. And all center owners working with one business plan in regards to leagues and memberships.
because if the top know where they are going, then the flow on to the league bowler will be consistent and transparent
Mate,i think you have hit the nail on the head, we have to many different organizations in Australia, i think that is half our problem, we need 1 governing body and 1 board in each state, so we can stream line the information bowlers need to get what they need.
we also need TBA, AMF and Private center owners, to come up with a unified business agreement, all leagues are sanctioned and all league bowlers are members of the sport. they can agree on a cost to cover league sanctions per center,
As for individual membership, the current system doesn't work especially when it comes to rep teams, as the selection criteria is based on ranking points, so why pay $55 for membership when you are not given the opportunity rep, your country, and most of us dont have the access to money to go every ranked tournament, as 99% of us earn a general wage and have all the everyday leaving expenses, so as bowlers who what to bowl in tournaments have to pick and choose what they can go to, at the start of the year, then the availability of money around the time of the tournament will determine whether you bowl or no, i dont know about you bout i dont have $1000 need for every tournament that is on, especially ranked events.
I think training squads are i good idea, if we had a national and state squads in each division is good as will show people how to step up into a possible Australian team, the squad sizes should have a limit but, people can come in and out them, as people may get injured, work commitment etc, will change there commitments.
the training days or weekends should be used as a showcase the sport, assist in coaching of all levels aswell as have some fun with general watchers, such as locals v squad challenge, because then the coaches, managers and squad members, help promote the game at grass roots, and for the local bowler show that they can get something out of sport, with a little effort,
the squad must train all over the state so we can access all bowling communities, as for national teams a little different as you will have people in different states, but the general principle will apply, for example NSW national members would have a training weekend with national or assistant coaches and managers, then the following month they would the same in QLD, so basically instead of 20 bowlers flying into one state, costing bowlers a fortune, it would cheaper to fly coaches and managers from state to state to assess the bowlers in there state and with most centers having similar oiling machines they can still train on the same patterns coaches want you to bowl on.
I think to fix bowling in Australia we need to start with the top, having 1 governing body, 1 state body. And all center owners working with one business plan in regards to leagues and memberships.
because if the top know where they are going, then the flow on to the league bowler will be consistent and transparent
agree 100% with mick. but I dont think its the people on TB you have to convert. Im sure 99% of people on TB are already TBA members. Not these people we need to get thinking.
is increasing the membership every year because of dwindling membership numbers thus reducing the numbers even more really the answer.
My goodness, the more things change the more they stay the same.
This debate has been going on as long as I can remember.
Time hasn’t allowed me to scroll through the 11 odd pages of comments so I might have missed something or this might have already been said but no selection system is fool proof, remember Ian Thorpe missing out in his pet event because he broke at the Olympic trials?
All you can ask is that any process be transparent.
Unfortunately our sport is no different to other Amateur or Semi Professional Sports. Under funded by State and National Governments and/or undervalued by its members. Either way you struggle to obtain and retain sponsors.
I do agree that a sport is best served with one governing body with that body providing strong leadership to promote the sport both internally and externally.
That I believe will provide the environment for business and government to invest in the sport which in turn allows the sport to grow.
Over the years many people have tried, some for personal gain but still with a benefit to the sport, to only been scuttled by petty politics.
I know I am getting off the track re the Australian Team so I will end with saying…To those who are going away best of luck and hold your head high as you are representing the best country in the World.
This debate has been going on as long as I can remember.
Time hasn’t allowed me to scroll through the 11 odd pages of comments so I might have missed something or this might have already been said but no selection system is fool proof, remember Ian Thorpe missing out in his pet event because he broke at the Olympic trials?
All you can ask is that any process be transparent.
Unfortunately our sport is no different to other Amateur or Semi Professional Sports. Under funded by State and National Governments and/or undervalued by its members. Either way you struggle to obtain and retain sponsors.
I do agree that a sport is best served with one governing body with that body providing strong leadership to promote the sport both internally and externally.
That I believe will provide the environment for business and government to invest in the sport which in turn allows the sport to grow.
Over the years many people have tried, some for personal gain but still with a benefit to the sport, to only been scuttled by petty politics.
I know I am getting off the track re the Australian Team so I will end with saying…To those who are going away best of luck and hold your head high as you are representing the best country in the World.
Michael Little
Active Member
With some luck.
Dave, you have kinda got my point, I don't mind the current membership system, being two tiered, its not that you pay 55 and not have a show of making the national team through rankings, it is that you cant afford to play enough tournaments, it is the way the world is, money is tight everywhere, I think the TBA have gone in a reasonable direction with limiting the tournaments to a set amount, it is flawed, and am sure with tweaking can be a good system. It is a long term solution I feel and can be built towards developing a tiered tournament system.
I also really couldn't give a toss about centres paying their sanction money albeit very welcome, if everyone who played a league was a member. The centres could invest that money into other avenues perhaps to take the burden from the TBA, perhaps developing and retaining new bowlers, helping out with the local associations etc etc. There are plenty of ways to go about things. The rest of what you have in your post re training squads, development squads etc etc, is for the future, it just wont happen without the membership numbers behind it all and therefore having funding available.
But hopefully with a paid coach in the wings, systems can be put into place now for the future when the pipe dream becomes a possibility, as it stands, all bowlers in this country are weekend warriors, working normal jobs, bowling on weekends, struggling with the balance of taking annual leave as opposed to bowling for a week somewhere etc etc. The only practical way to incorporate a regular training system for any current national team is to utilize current tournaments and have sessions there as most travel and bowl in these.
Michael Little
Active Member
I know what you are saying Rob, we need to get people thinking but I would say that people on this forum do need to be converted, many belong to alternate organisations, and are not TBA members. They have become p!ssed off with the TBA and some have good reason, others not. However members on this forum be it TBA members or not, all know and speak to a myriad of other bowlers, in their leagues, in their social life. The more discussion there is, the more people know, everyone knows word of mouth principle.
I don't necessarily think participant numbers have decreased dramatically, bowlers just aren't members anymore, the previous TBA have allowed this to happen.
And I don't have a problem with the current membership prices, how many people out there p!ss money up the wall on trivial things every day, week etc, but then sit and whinge about paying 27 odd dollars to be a member every year or 55 for a silver but still want to participate in a sport they are supposed to enthusiastic about? Membership isn't all that different in prices compared to a decade ago. It has been debated a gazillion times before, but this is literally bugger all compared to just about any other sport. Do we want to be taken seriously or not? At the moment the answer is no, because not everyone is a member to the national organisation.
With funding coming from the most basic of sources, then eventually we can get down the track to having funded rep teams among other things. Not quite the purpose of how this thread has gone, but it is related.
Robbie T
Member
Michael
You have some very valid points which would make a huge difference in our sport moving towards the future.
One thing Cara did mention in the meeting after the Aus Rolloffs is that she wants constructive feedback/ideas of all sorts to consider, especially from bowlers like yourself. I do suggest forwarding your above comments to Cara for reading, who knows what may come of them.
You have some very valid points which would make a huge difference in our sport moving towards the future.
One thing Cara did mention in the meeting after the Aus Rolloffs is that she wants constructive feedback/ideas of all sorts to consider, especially from bowlers like yourself. I do suggest forwarding your above comments to Cara for reading, who knows what may come of them.
I did forward my comments onto Cara and I must say they were well received and she thanked me for the feedback and wished more of the bowlers provided feedback to her.
Alot better response then I have in the past from TBA.
I think this thread alone shows that
1. How passionate bowlers still are about their sport
2. That all along most of them just want plain and simple answers from TBA or some sort of spokes person and
3. That THEY ALL want the same thing...The sport to grow...
Thanks once again Geoff for helping make this possible...Hopefully Cara and the Board can see that TB can work for them and everyone is willing to work together on this...
I might be speaking way too soon and i hope not, but this seems to be a step forward in its self...
Bigsy
Bigsalis
Is it worth suggesting that some members of the TBA join the total bowling website to provide feedback to members that have questions?
This way, the TBA could inform people of not only the information they require, but also keep people up to date on issues that many of the people on this website would like some answers for.
Bigsy...
Bee...!
Living the dream!!!
Wow, I've been reading this thread since it started and there is alot of food for thought here. Its great.
Some people may or may not know that TBA has a number of sub-committees. These are made up of volunteers, these are bowlers, proprietors, coaches and other people interested in progressing the TBA and bowling into the future.
I am a member of the Sports Development sub-committee, our committee has been together for approx 18 months now and is made up of other elite bowlers, coaches and people who work in the bowling industry. As a sub-committee we are in constant contact with each other via email and phone calls all of which is done in our own time. One of the areas this sub committee is covering is implementing clear pathways from the grass roots to national team selections. The aim is to make these pathways well known, consistant in each state and to come together at the national level.
Alot of the ideas that have been posted in this thread are ideas we have had and are trying to pursue, with time and money restraints this has been a difficult process but we have had alot of positive feedback and support from states. I have taken note of what has been posted here and will be putting it forward at our next teleconference.
I understand that alot of people have been burnt by the TBA in the past, as I know how that feels and also have close friends and family who have been treated the same. However, since joining the sub-committee and being involved in trying to make the sport better for the future I appreciate everything that these volunteers are doing and am really positive that they are trying to make good decisions. Since Cara's recent appointment as CEO and a few changes on the board I think its safe to say that even though its the same name (TBA) its got the sign out saying "Under New Management" and I am really excited to see where the sport goes in the next few years.
To those who have emailed Cara 'Thanks' to those thinking about it, I encourage you too as all ideas are dicussed and looked into.
If anyone would like to ask me any questions about what we do as a sub-committe or to give some ideas. Please contact me.
Bianca Flanagan
Some people may or may not know that TBA has a number of sub-committees. These are made up of volunteers, these are bowlers, proprietors, coaches and other people interested in progressing the TBA and bowling into the future.
I am a member of the Sports Development sub-committee, our committee has been together for approx 18 months now and is made up of other elite bowlers, coaches and people who work in the bowling industry. As a sub-committee we are in constant contact with each other via email and phone calls all of which is done in our own time. One of the areas this sub committee is covering is implementing clear pathways from the grass roots to national team selections. The aim is to make these pathways well known, consistant in each state and to come together at the national level.
Alot of the ideas that have been posted in this thread are ideas we have had and are trying to pursue, with time and money restraints this has been a difficult process but we have had alot of positive feedback and support from states. I have taken note of what has been posted here and will be putting it forward at our next teleconference.
I understand that alot of people have been burnt by the TBA in the past, as I know how that feels and also have close friends and family who have been treated the same. However, since joining the sub-committee and being involved in trying to make the sport better for the future I appreciate everything that these volunteers are doing and am really positive that they are trying to make good decisions. Since Cara's recent appointment as CEO and a few changes on the board I think its safe to say that even though its the same name (TBA) its got the sign out saying "Under New Management" and I am really excited to see where the sport goes in the next few years.
To those who have emailed Cara 'Thanks' to those thinking about it, I encourage you too as all ideas are dicussed and looked into.
If anyone would like to ask me any questions about what we do as a sub-committe or to give some ideas. Please contact me.
Bianca Flanagan
Welcome to the site Bee
...A lot of positives have come from this thread...Great read and sounds like the future of bowling could be in good hands...
