2010 Australian Adult team announced

[Geoff300]

Firstly Geoff,

I would like to thank you for being open and up front about these issues. I appreciate that you are in a difficult position and am commenting to the absolute best of your knowledge.

I understand in a normal sense why you would have a list and if any bowler on that list rolled their way into the team then you move down the list until you find someone who didn't.

Hopefully the next person on the list was next in performance as it makes the whole process less open to question.

However, I guess I just don't understand why it was announced at Worlds that Brian was pre selected and therefore the next person moved in.

If nothing was said at Worlds about pre selection then this is a non issue.

The top whatever on roll off make the team and the selected players are.

The questioning appears to be an unintended consequence of the wording used at the announcments at the World's roll off.

I still believe that there are some unanswered questions however tooing and froing won't get all the answers and I'm sure they will come out in time.

Again I can only thank you for striving to make things as clear as you can.

Regards
Carl

Hi Carl

Thanks for understanding I am just trying to help

It would be inappropriate for me to write down all the
pre selection list of bowlers on this web site so I have
to dance around a little and trust people can work out the order of things
for themselves

I was at castle Hill but did not get involved in the process

Chris ran it and he tells me that the announcement of anyone
on the list was made after the roll off and during the announcement of the team

As you can see from the previous message i posted it does not work
by moving people around in the positions they finished in the roll offs

It may be a coincidence that it happened that way but that is
not the methodology

Again , In respect to clarification , people can ring Cara or Chris
they wont mind telling them but i can assure you it is as above
I have made sure myself before writting this down

Suggestions on how to do it better and fairer would be fantastic

We Dont want people to lose sight of the fact that the aim is to try and take the
best team that is available or makes themselves available
to Win !!!!!!, That is without doubt my view, full stop !!!

If had the money I would pay for All Rep teams to go out
of my own pocket, but i have not won lotto yet
Then it would be interesting to see who put their hand
up to be part of the team

Cheers
Geoff

 

[Geoff300]

i would like to say congrats to all that made the team and i am sure you all will do us proud.
In reguards to the process and am still very confussed, i would think you would let bowlers know how many spots they are rolling off for and who the pre selected ones are.
thankfully i will never be that good to have to worry about this way of choosing a team.
But like i said well done to the players who made the team specially to Kate, Shaun and Bob.
thanks Fred

Hi Fred

You are confused

Please read the previous posts carefully

Everyone did know how it worked
In the end it is just how people interpret the process
that is confusing and in part i can see why

Also Dont take that view of yourself as never being good enough
If you want to be that good you can be !!!
All you need to do is spend time and effort on your game
with a coach who wants to help you.
You can do it

Cheers
Geoff

 

[Fitzy]

Add me to the confused 'list'!

What I am wondering is why there is a list?

Why I am wondering ... please correct me where I am wrong (as it has to be somewhere, surely) ...
From previous explanations let's look at some scenarios (based on 2 selected on list with four positions available - to keep it simple):

* If both selections make top four, selections plus next two highest in roll-off make the team (i.e Top 4 in roll-off)

* If one selection makes top four, that player plus next three highest make team. (i.e Top 4 in roll-off)

* If no selections make top four, the four highest make team (i.e Top 4 in roll-off).

If I am correct in these scenario's, the big point to highlight (if it is not already clearly obvious) would be, that the Top 4 in roll-off make the team.

This leads to my question posted above, what is the reason for the list??


Not having a go at anyone, I understand it is a DIFFICULT thing to do to determine who should represent this beautiful nation.

Like all others previous, I congratulate all who made the team/s and know you will all do your utmost to bring home the BLING!! Great bowling Ladies and Gents!

 

[yurac]

First off.....
Geoff...thanks for the openess & explanations to the questions, great to see someone prepared to give feedback these days

To my understanding & in Brian's earlier post he was selected for Worlds but 4weeks later he is not good enough to be selected for Asian

I am just unable to get my head around why this is so
Is there something I am missing????????
Appreciate TBA is not at libery to advise everyone of all the internal discusions

Having bowled in both World & Asian Champs, I know for a fact Worlds is by far a tougher competition, I would have thought, if a bowler is selected for World Champs, the selectors believe they are good enough to compete at his level
Surely with this in mind he is good enough to compete at Asian level, especially when the competitions are close together

Cheers
Colin

 

[gwhiting]

First off.....
Geoff...thanks for the openess & explanations to the questions, great to see someone prepared to give feedback these days

To my understanding & in Brian's earlier post he was selected for Worlds but 4weeks later he is not good enough to be selected for Asian

I am just unable to get my head around why this is so
Is there something I am missing????????
Appreciate TBA is not at libery to advise everyone of all the internal discusions

Having bowled in both World & Asian Champs, I know for a fact Worlds is by far a tougher competition, I would have thought, if a bowler is selected for World Champs, the selectors believe they are good enough to compete at his level
Surely with this in mind he is good enough to compete at Asian level, especially when the competitions are close together

Cheers
Colin

It would depend on who is trying out.

If it was exactly the same bowlers then it would be confusing.

 

[Geoff300]

First off.....
Geoff...thanks for the openess & explanations to the questions, great to see someone prepared to give feedback these days

To my understanding & in Brian's earlier post he was selected for Worlds but 4weeks later he is not good enough to be selected for Asian

I am just unable to get my head around why this is so
Is there something I am missing????????
Appreciate TBA is not at libery to advise everyone of all the internal discusions

Having bowled in both World & Asian Champs, I know for a fact Worlds is by far a tougher competition, I would have thought, if a bowler is selected for World Champs, the selectors believe they are good enough to compete at his level
Surely with this in mind he is good enough to compete at Asian level, especially when the competitions are close together

Cheers
Colin

Colin

This just gets harder and harder

The posts I made say it all , not much else I can say

Brian was selected, and ranked, In the same vane for the
worlds as the Asians

Some bowlers did not bowl in both, hence the different
selection preference

It is all very simple really , very transparent, maybe a bit
confusing, I get that But very simple if you just read the
post and believe that is the process, no hidden agendas
or anything else

Hope that answers your question

Cheers
Geoff

 

[Geoff300]

It would depend on who is trying out.

If it was exactly the same bowlers then it would be confusing.

Quite right, No , Exactly right !!!

 

[Fitzy]

What about my question??

Hang on ... I might be invisible again! checking, checking. nope!

cheers,

 

[Jase]

What about my question??
cheers,

Mate that's two questions your asking now... LOL

 

[Tiger Bottomley]

I'lll have a go at trying to explain the way I understand it.

There is a pre selected list A,B,C,D.

In the first team A and B make the team from rolloff and as such C and D are the preselected bowlers.

In the second team A and B do not make the team from the rolloff and as such become the pre selected bowlers.

In these scenarios C was good enough to be pre selected in the first team but not in the second despite the lists being the same.

No guarantee this is right and all care but no responsibility is taken!!!

 

[CHIN]

Jase,

you should have added a poll to your 1st post.

1. who's confused
2. who's not confused

 

[lovey]

Pilko,
Mate, these things happen in this sport. Naturally you would be disappointed that you didn't make it, but I can tell you something ,you will come back a better bowler and will achieve anything you wish for. It's happened to me on a few occasions. Keep working mate on your game and we will see your name up there with the best.
Cheers Lovey

 

[Jez]

Jez

With that paragraph in mind you must have some sort ideas or solution, reading over your post again it sounds like you may have an idea in mind...

Anything you might care to share......

I was not going to answer this question, but after the explanation as to the roll off / selection process currently in place, l will give it a go...

So here goes....

1. Bowlers wishing to nominated to make a National Team should nominate to make the National Training Squad (pre-requisite have to be a Silver Member).
2. The National Coach selects a national training squad.
3. Instead of "roll offs"..the squad gets together and bowls on the various patterns, maybe something like once every three months, or make it on some nights when National events are on to reduce costs. The coach (and assistants) works with the squad (i.e. how to play the patterns, elements of the bowlers games they need to work on etc).
4. Approx two months before an event, the coach selects the bowlers from the squad to make up the team to go away and compete. This can then be based on bowlers performances at the training sessions and current performances. The TBA panel can be required to approve if required.

It should be noted the training squad should be able to be changed throughout the year (i.e. bowlers go in an out).

Benefits I see:

1. Getting rid of a "roll off", so teams are not being decided on performances based on one weekend.
2. Bowlers wanting to make National Teams can nominate for the squad and then bowl and work with the National Coach to understand the various conditions and better there game. This will require bowlers making the national training squad dedicating some time and money to training sessions etc but it is known up front and will only improve the bowlers skills and abilities. At the end the team that goes will be alot better prepared for the events. Plus bowlers that dont make it, are still being developed by the National Coach (this is very important as talent needs to be developed).
3. Silver Members are getting a something back for their membership (i.e. working with / getting support from National Coach).
4. We have a National Coach who is being paid..in all others sports these ppl select the teams they wish to play and have the responsibility for their performances. This should be the case in our Sport as well. If teams do not perform or talent is not being developed the Coach needs to be held accountable.

Whilst the above is not perfect I think it has many benefits. The current process of having a roll off but then having a "pre-selected" list just doesn't make sense to me.

I am sure others have other ideas and some ppl will think I am crazy..but I think it provides positive outcomes all around. Will it get all the "elite" bowlers nominating......No as there will also be other factors contributing to this decision (i.e. job / family/ money)...but it will provide stronger base to develop the talent we have.

 

[rambo1]

Jez, you make some very good points regarding selection but what is the criteria to pick the training squad & what guarantee is there that no personal bias will exist.
i think all teams senior, youth, juniors should be picked like this, during the nationals the first 5 averages in the rachuig trophy (setting down a different pattern each day) & the winners of the masters should make up the team (bowlers need to nominate in advance & pay nomination fee) this should apply to youth & president shield this would guarantee a good roll up for the championships & i believe the teams will be just as strong as the teams that are selected now if not stronger
ranking points should not apply as they mainly reflect the amount of tournaments bowled not necessarily the quality of the bowler
my 2 cents worth

 

[Michelle]

oh my gosh.... with all this nonsense that i've just read about how the Australian teams are "selected" you wonder why the 'elite' don't try out to represent this country!

Other countries must wonder why one the best bowlers in the world isn't there representing their country.

Haha this kind of reminds me of the NSW Origin Team! ........TBA don't you think things need to change????

Jez's points need to be considered.

 

[Geoff300]

I am a little confused as to why selections are made before the roll off has occurred??? I thought the whole reason for the roll off is to see which bowlers have the ability to bowl on the conditions similar to those which will be laid at the events they will be competing in (i.e. short and long).

I am not saying I agree with roll offs as it results in a lot riding on one weekend...but the reason for them is as I have outlined above,.....therefore I do not understand selections being made prior to them. With the current system..it seems that if I am selected prior to the roll off but then come last in the roll off because I can not handle the conditions...I still make the team!?!?!?

If selections are made prior to roll offs it means the the coach and panel have selected who they think make up the best team....I don't see a problem with this but then just select the team and then some responsibility falls back on the selectors and coach.......doesn't that make sense...especially when we have a National coach who is being paid????????

I would like to make a point in regards to your comment on
the National Coach

Let us all not forget he is a legend of our game in this country
as well as very well regarded around the world for his bowling
skills and coaching record

Yes he gets paid, It is a paid role
He gets paid for 3 days a week at a rate
of pay I would not get out of bed for

He works far more than 3 days a week and
He makes himself available to anyone who wants help

Cheers
Geoff

 

[Ian Nicholls]

Please read
http://www.tenpin.org.au/fileadmin/...lt_Championships_selection_critieria_2010.pdf

 

[jwalsh]

Geoff, I cannot see anywhere in Jarrod's post where he is saying anything bad about Batson.

Just remember, previous National Team Coaches used to travel to EVERY national tournament at their own expense and used to travel overseas at their own expense ...funny that is when the top ranked players were trying out for the teams.... now we have a national coach who doesn't travel to the national tournaments, we are told to fund our own way and the coach is being paid.

The point that Jarrod made about the National Training Squad is a good one and has been spoken about by previous national teams for years, with the whole idea behind it of developing bowlers. Now we have selection trials and you have players who deserve to make team but have a bad weekend and then you have players who don't deserve to make team as much but have a good weekend and make it. I've never been to one of these selection trials and seen bowlers who missed the team go away and know what they have to do to better themselves for future selections.

People can argue back and forth on forums and over emails, but at the end of the day until TBA gets rid of all the bull**** and is upfront with their decisions, whether it is to get government grants or personal reasons, Australia will never improve.

The big thing is everything that is done in this section of the industry has to be for the main goal to develop our country for the future. Otherwise, Australia is going nowhere. There is too many talented young players going to waste with the way things are now.

Jason

 

[Jez]

I would like to make a point in regards to your comment on
the National Coach

Let us all not forget he is a legend of our game in this country
as well as very well regarded around the world for his bowling
skills and coaching record

Yes he gets paid, It is a paid role
He gets paid for 3 days a week at a rate
of pay I would not get out of bed for

He works far more than 3 days a week and
He makes himself available to anyone who wants help

Cheers
Geoff

Geoff,

I was not having a go at the Coach or questioning his commitment..I was purely outlining if we have a paid Coach with his experience let him have the team he wants and develop the bowlers. Just like coaches in all other sports.

 

[Geoff300]

oh my gosh.... with all this nonsense that i've just read about how the Australian teams are "selected" you wonder why the 'elite' don't try out to represent this country!

Other countries must wonder why one the best bowlers in the world isn't there representing their country.

Haha this kind of reminds me of the NSW Origin Team! ........TBA don't you think things need to change????

Jez's points need to be considered.

Why dont you ask this "one of the best bowlers in the world" isnt there
representing their Country

You may just be surprised

The TBA are listening

Regards
Geoff