2010 Australian Adult team announced

[Pilko]

Firstly I would like to congratulate all those that successfully made the teams to go to Abu Dhabi. I am sure that you will do the best you can for your country, it will certainly be an experience for you all to remember.

We always have different opinions on who should and shouldn’t be in different teams. It happens all the time. To be completely honest yes I am gutted to not be going to Abu Ahabi, but in a few days time that will pass. As to why I was not selected I do not know, more likely that I was simply just not good enough to go… so be it... the sun will still come up tomorrow and life will go on. Will it change anything finding out…. NO.... will it affect my thoughts on applying for teams in the future probably but that is my own choice.

If anyone were to ask me if I think the current process is the correct one for sending a team away my response would be that at least it gives every bowler who pays their membership an opportunity to attempt to make an Australian team. I think there are a few things that could be done better for future team processes (Educating bowlers on where they need to play certain patterns then actually testing bowlers ranges on the different patterns). I will be sure to write to Cara at TBA so I can at least express my thoughts on how I feel things could be changed for the future. Cara has asked for feedback on many areas with our sport going forward from us the bowlers, we all have opinions so maybe it is time everyone sent them to TBA so we can try to get the sport lifted again.

Again good luck to those who have made it you have all done what you had to to make the team.

 

[Bigsy]

I don't have the answers but one thing is for sure.... the Government is not going to increase funding for Ten Pin Bowling anytime in the near future, so that bucket of money is gone. We have to make optimum utilisation of what funding and $$ our sport does generate and obtain.

This could open up a very large can of worms !!!

Bigsy...

 

[Jase]

I don't have the answers but one thing is for sure.... the Government is not going to increase funding for Ten Pin Bowling anytime in the near future, so that bucket of money is gone. We have to make optimum utilisation of what funding and $$ our sport does generate and obtain.

Jez

With that paragraph in mind you must have some sort ideas or solution, reading over your post again it sounds like you may have an idea in mind...

Anything you might care to share...

Apart from the obvious, where is the rest of our Top level bowlers...is there a reason they aren't showing up to the weekend roll offs to try to make these teams...

 

[Geoff300]

OK....think everyone is asking the same question

What is the reason or circumstances this person was not selected for Asian team

Cheers
Colin

If we are talking about Brian Pilkington it is for 2 reasons

The first one is obvious, He did not bowl his way into
the team.

Brian made the World team because he Bowled his way into
the Team, He may not have been selected for that either...

Secondly he was not high up enough on the "Selection List"
to be chosen for the team following the 4 who Bowled their
way into the Asian Team

The selections were done Prior to the roll off, which I had with me,
and were made by the selection committe and they made sure
all the criteria were met.

Chris Batson was asbsent in Asia with the Asian Zone Schools event
and I was asked to be the official and had help from both Simon Calder
and Mike Seymour, the Team Manager

This was all explained during the announcement of the Teams
following the roll off by Cara Honeychurch
Questions were asked and all answered

Anything else we want to know

 

[Jase]

Brian made the World team because he Bowled his way into
the Team, He may not have been selected for that either...

I may be wrong here but i was led to believe that Brian was told that he was one of the selected bowlers...Like Kate also said earlier that he was preselected meaning that Brendan moved up from 4th position into the last roll off position available...

So if that is true then now everyone can see why the investigation of the whole process...How you could be selected for a Worlds Team and then not a month later for the Asian Team...Lets face it he may have been out scored by the first 4 bowlers, but he certainly was the MOST CONSISTENT across the 3 patterns laid...

The selections were done Prior to the roll off, which I had with me,
and were made by the selection committe and they made sure
all the criteria were met.

Is Gail Torrens part of this committee...Because if this is the case when i spoke with Gail on Monday she knew nothing about Brian Missing the Team...


Thanks for taking the time Geoff to follow up the answers...Certainly helps shed some light on it all...

 

[Geoff300]

I may be wrong here but i was led to believe that Brian was told that he was one of the selected bowlers...Like Kate also said earlier that he was preselected meaning that Brendan moved up from 4th position into the last roll off position available...

So if that is true then now everyone can see why the investigation of the whole process...How you could be selected for a Worlds Team and then not a month later for the Asian Team...Lets face it he may have been out scored by the first 4 bowlers, but he certainly was the MOST CONSISTENT across the 3 patterns laid...




Is Gail Torrens part of this committee...Because if this is the case when i spoke with Gail on Monday she knew nothing about Brian Missing the Team...


Thanks for taking the time Geoff to follow up the answers...Certainly helps shed some light on it all...

Hi Jarrod

Is that more questions you are asking
or still just fishing ?

Cheers
Geoff

 

[Pilko]

If we are talking about Brian Pilkington it is for 2 reasons

The first one is obvious, He did not bowl his way into
the team.

Brian made the World team because he Bowled his way into
the Team, He may not have been selected for that either...

Secondly he was not high up enough on the "Selection List"
to be chosen for the team following the 4 who Bowled their
way into the Asian Team

The selections were done Prior to the roll off, which I had with me,
and were made by the selection committe and they made sure
all the criteria were met.

Chris Batson was asbsent in Asia with the Asian Zone Schools event
and I was asked to be the official and had help from both Simon Calder
and Mike Seymour, the Team Manager

This was all explained during the announcement of the Teams
following the roll off by Cara Honeychurch
Questions were asked and all answered

Anything else we want to know

Well Geoff i cannot stay out of this any longer... thanks for attempting to make some sort of explaination even though your assumptions (and it appears that is exactly what the are for the first roll off) are a long way from the truth.

As somebody whom it actually concerns and knows what happened at the first roll off i will explain to you why you are incorrect.

Firstly yes i did roll my way into the team for the world championships in 3rd position. However i had already been selected and as such it was announced that i was removed from the "roll off" standings. By doing this Brendan who was in 4th position was moved up to third position in the "roll off". If you dont believe me perhaps check the standing sheet or talk to the people who were around when the team announcement was made.
So i am not sure where you got your info from but it is very incorrect.

The only person who knows the reason for the "ordering" is the coach.

So just to recap for those that clearly arent following this...
1. Yes I bowled way into worlds team
2. Removed from worlds roll off standings due to already being selected.
THAT MEANS THAT I WAS SELECTED! are we following now????

As I mentioned earlier nothing will change the current team and nor should it. Everyone in the team is there because that is where they are meant to be. They will all go away with the support from everyone here and good luck to them.

 

[Jase]

Hi Jarrod

Is that more questions you are asking
or still just fishing ?

Cheers
Geoff

Geoff

Firstly let me say its Jase not Jarrod...
and you said we could ask questions...So i am...

Fishing is something i do on weekends with the kids...

Thanks JASE

 

[Animal]

Mr Pilkington you are a gentleman, and long may you haunt the non
believers.
Regards
Animal.

 

[Geoff300]

Well Geoff i cannot stay out of this any longer... thanks for attempting to make some sort of explaination even though your assumptions (and it appears that is exactly what the are for the first roll off) are a long way from the truth.

As somebody whom it actually concerns and knows what happened at the first roll off i will explain to you why you are incorrect.

Firstly yes i did roll my way into the team for the world championships in 3rd position. However i had already been selected and as such it was announced that i was removed from the "roll off" standings. By doing this Brendan who was in 4th position was moved up to third position in the "roll off". If you dont believe me perhaps check the standing sheet or talk to the people who were around when the team announcement was made.
So i am not sure where you got your info from but it is very incorrect.

The only person who knows the reason for the "ordering" is the coach.

So just to recap for those that clearly arent following this...
1. Yes I bowled way into worlds team
2. Removed from worlds roll off standings due to already being selected.
THAT MEANS THAT I WAS SELECTED! are we following now????

As I mentioned earlier nothing will change the current team and nor should it. Everyone in the team is there because that is where they are meant to be. They will all go away with the support from everyone here and good luck to them.

Brian

Sorry this has all upset you, I can assure you I have zero
Intention of doing anything like that, I have no axe to
grind with anyone

I said , in terms of the World Team, MAYBE you would not
be selected because i Didnt know the answer to that I only
knew you had Bowled your way into the team

The questions that have been asked here are "Why you were
not selected for the Asian Team"

I was trying to answer what I knew and I do know what took
place for the Asian Team selection

Hope that is all okay and understood now

Cheers
Geoff

 

[Geoff300]

Geoff

Firstly let me say its Jase not Jarrod...
and you said we could ask questions...So i am...

Fishing is something i do on weekends with the kids...

Thanks JASE

Sorry Jase , I missed your name

Cheers
Geoff

 

[Jez]

I am a little confused as to why selections are made before the roll off has occurred??? I thought the whole reason for the roll off is to see which bowlers have the ability to bowl on the conditions similar to those which will be laid at the events they will be competing in (i.e. short and long).

I am not saying I agree with roll offs as it results in a lot riding on one weekend...but the reason for them is as I have outlined above,.....therefore I do not understand selections being made prior to them. With the current system..it seems that if I am selected prior to the roll off but then come last in the roll off because I can not handle the conditions...I still make the team!?!?!?

If selections are made prior to roll offs it means the the coach and panel have selected who they think make up the best team....I don't see a problem with this but then just select the team and then some responsibility falls back on the selectors and coach.......doesn't that make sense...especially when we have a National coach who is being paid????????

 

[exPatBowler]

OK, so how come one of the best players in the world isn't on the Australian team for either the Asian Championships or the World Men's Championships? I assume that it has to be because Belmo declared himself unavailable (if that's not the case I'm even more puzzled). However, with all due respect to the players selected, it's just a shame that bowling is apparently not recognized enough as a sport in Australia for the governing body to be able to send the absolute best possible team to this event by providing sufficient compensation/incentive to attract the best competitors. I'm surprised that sponsorship funding isn't available?

 

[Tiger Bottomley]

Jarrod your confused. There is something that puzzles me even more.

As Geoff has explained Brian was not high enough on the list after the 4 who rolled their way into the team.

Why is there a list?

At the Worlds Brian bowled his way into the team and it was announced that he was pre selected so the next bowler in the roll off made the team.

Now lets get that clear, this was announced. So the precedent is set, 2 pre selected and if they make the team on roll off, it is announced that they were pre selected and the next player comes from the roll off again. Clear and understood.

Though apparently not, as now there is a list!! So again I ask, Why is there a list needed when the 2 pre selected are announced in the team and the precedent is that the remainder will come from the roll off.

I also question, given the fact that the pre selections are done so far in advance and based on the methodology applied for the World team, why the pre selected bowlers are made to roll off. The remainder of the field is potentially playing blind as they don’t know whether people in front of them already know they are in the team before a ball is bowled.

Again while Brian is a good friend of mine the bigger issue for me is the consistency and transparency of the process.

Truth be known I am a supporter of selection as the process as while it is not, and never can be as transparent as roll off it gives a better opportunity to get the best team in my opinion.

So in summary my question is, Why is there a need for a Selection List? and I don't think we ever got an answer to Jason's question, Whether GAil Torrens is one of the selection committee?

 

[Geoff300]

In the Asian Team Roll Off from the 4 who bowled themselves into the team 3 were not on the selection list

The Idea is to take it out of the hands of the selction process and bowl well enough
to get yourself into the team

There Is a List for the above reason
The list is , for want of a better way to say it, the prefered team or
the team that is expected to make the team on their own
Therefore if someone on the list makes the team on their own the
next in line becomes the first selection following the roll off. You must
give people a chance to make the team on their own merits in the
roll off, That is another reason for having the list

The selection list is done in advance by the committee and is ratified by the TBA board
and must meet the criteria set down. It also stops people making
decisions based on emotion at the time the team is announced

I was given strict instructions not to tell anyone who was on the list
prior to or during the roll off
The same thing happened at the Worlds, The announcement of who was
pre selected was made after the roll off at the team announcement
There was a list for the worlds as well !!!

If anyone knew those selections prior to that time then someone
is talking out of school and should be spoken to or removed from the process
" That is my view , not policy"

Is Gail on that Committee, YES she is !!!

The pre selected are made to roll off because it is part of the process currently
It may well change but currently this is the policy
It also gives other people the opportunity to make the team
as some people dont have the money or time to chase Ranking points
Now that is not perfect either

The reality of it all is that Cara asked all the Bowlers and spectators in the room
at the team anouncement to ask questions and comment about the process of
selection and roll off and ranked event selections etc etc
There was some discussion but not a lot of "lets do it this way" , "This will suit everyone"
ideas to solve the constanct conjecture

Whatever way it is done someone will not be happy, thats life !!!

I actually dont mind the system used for the Asin team MENS given there were
4 spots available at roll off and 2 selections
You would have to feel for the Women with only 2 + 2

As i said before I have no axe to grind, Brian and Kate are nice people and I thought
Brian was unlucky to miss out on the team and he should be upset and disappointed
that he missed out. If he was not he would not be the person or competitor he is....

I am really happy to try to go over stuff for people because it is important that the TBA be as transparent and honest about all of the process.

Having said that individualls can and should contact Chris Batson or Cara Honeychurch directly if they need to vent or clarify anything, that is perfectly okay.

Hope that helps

Cheers
Geoff

 

[Jase]

Thanks Geoff...

But i am still alot confused...

Three points i have

1. If 3 of the 4 that rolled themselves into the team are not on the list than 1 must be...So if that is the case shouldn't he be removed from the roll off scores and everyone moves up a position...Hence Pilko finishes 4th?

2. If there were two roll off spots available for the women, than what your saying is that from that list conducted that Kate or Rebecca were not one of the ones to be selected or rated high on the list...I also find that hard to believe (judged on ability alone and past performances), because if that is true than this has just cost Jen Jones a spot in her bid to get an Australian spot...The way i see it is even if one of them was on that list they are removed and everyone moves up a spot and Jen then moves into the team...

3. I was surprised that Gail didn't even know the make up of the team or the fact the Pilko missed out on Monday...

 

[Tiger Bottomley]

Firstly Geoff,

I would like to thank you for being open and up front about these issues. I appreciate that you are in a difficult position and am commenting to the absolute best of your knowledge.

I understand in a normal sense why you would have a list and if any bowler on that list rolled their way into the team then you move down the list until you find someone who didn't.

Hopefully the next person on the list was next in performance as it makes the whole process less open to question.

However, I guess I just don't understand why it was announced at Worlds that Brian was pre selected and therefore the next person moved in.

If nothing was said at Worlds about pre selection then this is a non issue.

The top whatever on roll off make the team and the selected players are.

The questioning appears to be an unintended consequence of the wording used at the announcments at the World's roll off.

I still believe that there are some unanswered questions however tooing and froing won't get all the answers and I'm sure they will come out in time.

Again I can only thank you for striving to make things as clear as you can.

Regards
Carl

 

[gwhiting]

With the female team Anne-Maree and Narelle were the two top ranked bowlers.

Rebecca and Kate were the two top qualifies from the roll off.

Lexi and Natalie were the selected bowlers.

My understanding of the selection is it doesn't matter where you finish.

I am confused as to why names would be crossed off the selected list.

If the selected bowlers finished first and second then third and fourth would be in the team.

 

[Geoff300]

Jase

It works like this

2 spots available for the women - because Ann Maree and Narelle took their spots
4 spots available for the men - because Paul and George declined

Therefore :-

If you bowl yourself into the team by being in the top 4, your in the team

If you are on the pre selection list and you bowl your way into the
top 4 spots you are in the team on your own merits

What happens then is that the person who is listed "Next highest" choice on the
pre selection list is now the 1st choice at the team announcement.
Bowlers do not move up a place in the roll off as a result of the above.

It may be coincidental that that may happen but that is not how it works


You can not be on the pre selection list unless
1 Your are in the top 15 ranked bowlers
2 You are given an exemption for some reason

In respect to the womens Team

Kate and Rebecca were both on the list BUT also bowled there way
into the team on their own merits, and very well too I might add.
There fore the 2 picks from the pre selection list then goes to
the next 2 "Highest" on the selection list

Gail may not have known on Monday but should and could have known
if she had been in contact with the TBA or checked the Website or Spoken to
any of the officials.
Had she done so she would have been aware of all the placings in the roll off
and therefore been able to understand who was and was not in the team

Clear as mud !!!

Hope that helps a bit more

Cheers
Geoff

 

[flinstone]

i would like to say congrats to all that made the team and i am sure you all will do us proud.
In reguards to the process and am still very confussed, i would think you would let bowlers know how many spots they are rolling off for and who the pre selected ones are.
thankfully i will never be that good to have to worry about this way of choosing a team.
But like i said well done to the players who made the team specially to Kate, Shaun and Bob.
thanks Fred