2008 Australian Youth Team

[Parlbs]

Someone opened a can of worms!!

Belmo, Jez and Matt have hit the nail on the head. If i were to make the team( not that im bowling anymore) id EXPECT the costs to be the same for all participants whether it be bowlers or officials. $6000 in 6 weeks thats rough.

I can understand what TBA have tried to do but the fact of the matter is, we do not have the funds to be doing this. Im sure the money could have been split between all particpants to make the costs a fraction more affordable for everyone.

When this sport gets government funding which hopefully it will one day we will never have to worry about this coz im sure all participants will have there trips paid for like most sporting athletes/teams do in this country.

To answer Portos question from the first post, to get $6000 in 6 weeks would be impossible with rent, bills, car loan and all other cost to go with living. I couldnt afford to borrow from the bank and go and represent my country.

To represent Australia is dream most aim for and i did to. But with these circumstances the difficulties to go alongside are to great.

Shaun Parlby

 

[Potter]

Life doesn't give us all a level playing field....i guess neither does TBA...some will be able to afford to go & others not BUT at least there will be some excellent bowlers there to represent our Country...as for TBA knowing 4 weeks before it was announced...4 weeks or 4 months would not have made a difference for some people...it is difficult enough to keep up the $$ for enough tournaments to keep up with the rankings system but $6000 is as big a dream as bowling for Australia...if I had it I would willingly pay so good luck to those who can!

 

[Porto]

I agree with what has been said on this thread so far in regards to the 'free ride' issue.

However, I'd like to bring up another issue, 'Team Selection Criteria'.
The thing that bothers me the most of all is the Beep Test...
Why are they basing one of the selection criteria on the Beep Test?
The first thing I see when I type Beep Test into wikipedia is - "is used by sports coaches and trainers to estimate an athlete's VO2 max (maximum oxygen uptake). The test is especially useful for players of sports like Cross Country, football, hockey, rugby, or tennis and is employed by many international sporting teams as an acurrate test of Cardio"
WHAT DOES THIS HAVE TO DO WITH BOWLING?!?!
I'm pretty sure that I haven't walked off the lanes needing a good dose of oxygen lately...

The criteria isn't perfect. I don't understand how or why a written test will help selectors choose who is a better bowler to play for Australia, but not having seen the test I guess I can't comment too much on that...

With the majority of the criteria being assessed on one day I hardly see it fair that someone deserved of selection can crash and burn on the Monday and not make the cut.

Anyone else got any thoughts on this?



Porto

 

[Werribee]

Interesting revelation taken directly from the World Youth Championships bulletin #2 and dated 24 March 2008
It seems that the TBA confirmed Australia's participation in this event a full four weeks before they announced it to our youth bowlers.
2008 WTBA World Youth Championships Bulletin 2
July 18-26, 2008 • Orlando, Florida, USA March 24, 2008
2008wyc.com
Pat Winkels, Registration Manager pat.winkels@bowl.com
5301 S. 76th St. Office: (414) 423-3231
Greendale, WI 53129 Mobile: (414) 839-4251
United States 2008wyc.com
- 11 -
8. Confirmed Countries
As of March 24, 2008:
BOYS
Australia
Czech Republic
England
Estonia
Finland
Germany
Greece
Guam
Hungary
Indonesia
Israel
Italy
Malaysia
Mexico
Northern Ireland
Norway
Scotland
Switzerland
United States
GIRLS
Australia
Czech Republic
England
Estonia
Finland
Germany
Greece
Hungary
Indonesia
Israel
Italy
Malaysia
Mexico
Northern Ireland
Norway
Scotland
United States
The full bulletin can be found at the following link.
http://www.2008wyc.com/downloads/pdf/bulletins/WYC-bulletin2.pdf

You will find that the TBA knew about this event over 12 months ago, although you can't place any blame with our current CEO as she has only been in that position since February and had to prioritise her workload (Junior Nationals had to be addressed as it was due to start).

Nothing like being prepared....

Edi

 

[The Devil's Advocate]

Everyone's a bit, no a lot dissappointed with the $6000 cost for the youths and all sorts of people are angry and slagging it .... well guys ... welcome to our world...the seniors had to pay about this for representing their country last year in Japan ... so this problem is systemic ....I feel ALL representative bowlers, at least representing, your country should have the direct expenses paid for..airfares, accomodation, lineage, uniforms...
FYI darts teams for nationals get all expenses paid for AND spending money ... maybe we should apply to come under their umbrella ..
Yep we know the criteria for selection is flawed, but who has the balls to change it ....better still anyone in the governing body want to change it... and until they do we still have to play by the criteria to get selected, if we want to represent our country, no matter how flawed it is.... the only other way is a petition hhmm......

 

[BELMO]

I agree with what has been said on this thread so far in regards to the 'free ride' issue.
However, I'd like to bring up another issue, 'Team Selection Criteria'.
The thing that bothers me the most of all is the Beep Test...
Why are they basing one of the selection criteria on the Beep Test?
The first thing I see when I type Beep Test into wikipedia is - "is used by sports coaches and trainers to estimate an athlete's VO2 max (maximum oxygen uptake). The test is especially useful for players of sports like Cross Country, football, hockey, rugby, or tennis and is employed by many international sporting teams as an acurrate test of Cardio"
WHAT DOES THIS HAVE TO DO WITH BOWLING?!?!
I'm pretty sure that I haven't walked off the lanes needing a good dose of oxygen lately...
The criteria isn't perfect. I don't understand how or why a written test will help selectors choose who is a better bowler to play for Australia, but not having seen the test I guess I can't comment too much on that...
With the majority of the criteria being assessed on one day I hardly see it fair that someone deserved of selection can crash and burn on the Monday and not make the cut.
Anyone else got any thoughts on this?
Porto

Mate i think your missing the point.

Fit and agile body, gives you a fit agile mind.

Ill be the first person to say that at my heaviest i weighed 96kgs. I now weigh 86kg and im bowling better than ever.
I dont get tired as fast and my mind stays focussed for longer......which is the most important thing in bowling.

If you cant get to 8 on a beep test (for men) 5 for ladies then its not just bowling your doing harm to!

Whilst i see your point, TBA are only trying to get bowlers to understand that at the elite level of any sport (within reason) the fittest are the best!
Great example is Tiger Woods......take a look at him now and look at him 5 years ago.....
I think Tiger knows what he is doing!

About the weekend camp...I agree with you to some extent.
The written test...well like you i cant comment.
The fact that its over 1 weekend..... Im not a big fan either. But I can see why TBA are trailing it. (thats all this criteria is, a trial)
I would prefer there to be a training squad of say 12, where those 12 are looked at through out the year and have to do 3 camps, similar to this one, where points are given.
Have these 3 camps in 3 different states and then the cream would be for sure at the top!

What do you think??

Belmo

 

[Dozza]

The way I read the criteria for selection is that of the 10 sections which are worth equal parts of say 10 each, only 20% is based on the past 12 months. So if I'm reading it correctly it would seem that if you had a good day on the Monday you could potentially make the team and not even be ranked in the top 20 or so bowlers. This would be great for those that have recently found out about this event but for some that have been participating in many events over the past 12 months and planning for this event for over a year it comes down to one day. I agree that it is necessary to have a required level of fitness but to place so much importance on the one day it seems a little out of balance.

Belmo I love your idea of the 3 camp scenario.

My thoughts on the funding is this. It has been decided for this event and what's done is done. Everyone can say what they like but at the end of the day if the appointed coaches and manager accept their positions then it will be up to them to alter any financial arrangements as they see fit. I trust that Gillian is doing what she can for the team and I will wait and see what happens. Whether my son makes the team or not I will always support the national team in whatever way I can.


Doriana Porto

 

[Porto]

I probably should have added this to to my previous post. Unfortunately due to various reasons the selection of the team is going to be very late and therefore we only have time for one camp. Ultimately the criteria set out is a trial like Belmo said and hopefully we can use it as a base and improve on it in the future.

I think the 3 camp idea is great. The training squad of 12 reminds me of the National Training Squad the TBA tried to get going a while ago. Hopefully they can get that into full swing and give bowlers something to aspire to before they hit the National team.

Getting back to the beep test. I agree with you saying that, "Fit and agile body, gives you a fit agile mind." I don't dispute that for a second. I should have clarified before that I don't think the beep test is the best measure of fitness. I don't know what is but I don't think the beep test is.
For example; I know that I'll struggle getting to 8 on the beep test but not because I'm not fit but because I have a very unco-ordinated running style and it puts a lot of pressure on my right knee.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that there shouldn't be so much pressure on people in regards to the beep test because running is not something that we are trained to do...

 

[BELMO]

Mummy Porto:

I have expressed the same feeling that you have to Gillian and she did give me a good response.
Basically the rankings winners will give the bowler a 30% head start on the field. Over a weekend of bowling the best will come through. If it was just a 6 game block then i think it would be in serious trouble.
I tried to explain to her that luck does come involved in a short format but the bowlers will be tested in numerous conditions and patterns.
Plus another advantage to the best bowlers, the patterns they bowl on should be tough. Luck can only get you so far, you better be skilled to get you the rest of the way!
There will always be a dark horse possibility, I have been in teams with them in the past, but any bowler who makes it, will do Australia proud! They always have!
All this new selection camp does is take out any and all bias selections!

Little Porto:

Mate give me a exercise program to determine fitness that does not include running and TBA can afford to use!
As far as resources go....Running is cheap, everyone can do it.
My suggestion, buy the Beep Test CD and practice.
With practice, like all things you will only get better at it!

Belmo

 

[Chipis]

Mate give me a exercise program to determine fitness that does not include running and TBA can afford to use!
As far as resources go....Running is cheap, everyone can do it.
My suggestion, buy the Beep Test CD and practice.
With practice, like all things you will only get better at it!

I agree with Belmo. The Beep test is a good indication of fitness and a massive plus to it, is the cost. Or lack of should i say. It is downloadable (what a word!) so why buy it on cd!?!
Have people thought that practising the beep test will benefit themself in more than one way. How many people have "bad" knee's in bowling..? With the right exercises, and continually doing the beep test, your knee with a lot of other things will become stronger and you will therefore benefit from this!!
That's my opinion...

 

[Griffo]

Hello again,

With all the comments about "Beep tests" and Fitness tests, I thought I would have a say.

As I have previously stated, I agree with the whole “fitness” approach, and its benefit to the elite level of tenpin bowling. After all, we are trying to be accepted as a “sport”.
I know a lot of athletes shudder when they hear about “fitness test” requirements, but I feel it is a valid selection criteria, and in all reality, nothing really to detest or complain about.

Belmo and Glen are right – fitness does not just prove your ability to “run fast” or have a good heart rate. The calculations are used to establish pre-determined cardiovascular capability and overall fitness levels. It helps show how well your body sends sufficient oxygen to all parts of your body including your brain. A fit and agile body does benefit focus, concentration, stamina and overall performance especially under pressure – yes in bowling too.

Here in Brunei, we have fitness tests scheduled throughout the year; for all sports, including Bowling. A pass rate of 75% is a requirement to make most teams.

Our tests consist of two different parts; strength and fitness.

Strength: All tests and weights are based on your gender and body weight. Biceps & Triceps Curl, Lat Pull Down, Leg Extension, Hamstring Curl, Bench Press, Back Power, Standing Long Jump (single and double leg), Medicine Ball Throw (two hand underarm). These results are combined to give one percentage. Grip strength was recently dropped due to being considered irrelevant for bowling.

Fitness: BMI (Height & Weight), Flexibility, Stork Balance (L & R Leg), 2.4km Run / Walk (VO2 Max). Instead of Beep test, we do the run, and you do 6 laps (of 400m) running or walking as you see fit. You are timed, and a good pass rate is around 15mins female, 13 mins male. These results are combined with the “strength” percentage to give an overall fitness test mark.

We regularly go through the same complaints – how does this relate to bowling. “Why do I have to run?” It is a common factor; some bowlers do not like to be tested for fitness. But the bottom line is, here in Brunei, we have to because the Government treats us as a sport, and says we have to!

As a National Coach, I can say from experience, that the bowlers, who perform best in these tests, seem to perform best on the lanes. Whether it is because they are fitter, or because their attitude and commitment is better, and they willing try to be the best, I cannot say.

Now, although some bowlers struggle with some components, they still complete all tests. If they are better at some things than others, they can score well here to cover their weaknesses.

I am not saying that the tests we do in Brunei are perfect, or that Australia should adopt this same approach. I am simply trying to show that around the world it is happening, and if we wish to be treated as a “sport” and not just a recreation, we must do it and attitudes must change.

The bottom line is …. If you consider yourself to be an "elite athlete", fitness is an issue. If you have areas of weakness, practice and train to eliminate or reduce those factors, just like you do with your game. If this means train or go to a gym, do it.
It does not require great time or cost, as previously stated by Glen, download the “beep test” and train at home. Running costs nothing.

Hope this helps,

Mike Griffith
National Tenpin Bowling Coach
Brunei Darussalam