2007 Playford Classic

[KANAFA!]

Tony I have to agree with you there in regards to the younger bowlers (understandably I also am young, however I refer more so to the juniors)

Recently I have been watching the Presidents shield in Altona, and noticed how the teams went. I know how the cycle works, we had a very strong team for 2 years and we all aged out and now a new, young and fresh team has arrived. I can almost gaurantee that the team went out on the first day of shield and felt a little intimidated. I spose what I am saying is if these kids get out to the local tournaments like the Playford Classic, and even more so the Junior youth circuits, then by the time they get to Presidents shield, they are going to be thinking "this is nothing, bring it on" and get down to work and win! Also, I am a firm believer in training and putting in the hard yards, but with out tournament experience like the Playford classic, training doesnt mean anything. The two work together.

Just my thoughts

Matt

 

[Anthony L]

Thankyou Paul for your reply and l do understand that you cannot please everyone... To Tony l take your point on a two day event and if l had your money l would layout the fees for the Classic and if l did not make the cut (and that is very likely) then would layout more money to bowl the Seniors next day... cheers Tony Long

 

[strop]

Totally agree with you Matt!

No problems Mr. Long, I also know in this day and age money also plays a bit factor. I too cant afford too much, one of the reasons I don't travell interstate at the momen, althought I am hoping to go to the melbourne cup this year, since it's been over 10 years since i have travelled to a individual event.

cheers

Tony

 

[SNEEZY]

In response to both Paul and Tony. As I stated in my response, you won't be able to please everyone and I never mentioned anything about changing the tournament dates 30 times!!! At the same time like someone else said both years this tournament has been held on a weekend when there has been another tournament on (ATBSO). If there was a 3 week window either side of this what was on during that time?? Was it national event that may have clashed or another in house tournament??

Anyway, the main reason why numbers may be down would be to do with advertising. Tony, you say that this tournament has been well advertised. Well not once yet have I seen a entry form down at Noarlunga - What about other centres?? Secondly, how many people out there know about Totalbowling yet alone are actually members of Totalbowling. You have to be a member and be able to log into this site to be able to read or do anything like downloading entry forms, etc. Thirdly, in saying this how many centres are there that are out there that will promote another centres tournaments. If this happened the number of entries would probably be double what it is now.

Just my thoughts.

DAVID

 

[strop]

David, David, David,
Really I don't even know why you are bothering to make any comments at all, however if you are so concerned that their is no entry forms at noarlunga then why don't you put some there? As you commented

Anyway, the main reason why numbers may be down would be to do with advertising. Tony, you say that this tournament has been well advertised. Well not once yet have I seen a entry form down at Noarlunga - What about other centres??

Trust me it's not the case, I have seen tournaments advertised so much with little effect on entries.
But on the other hand their are a few dedicated enough to this sport to actually do something like "Help" advertise tournaments around the place instead of moaning about it on this site.
Do us a favour if you care about this tournament, then get off your arse and promote it. Don't whine about how much a centre can do, word of mouth is also the best way of getting entries.
Focus your thoughts into advertising the tournament not complaining about it on here.
Cheers
Tony

 

[Elizabeth Bowland]

Hi David,

the printer has been running hot and I have printed out 200 entry forms that will be posted to ALL bowling centres in South Australia tomorrow morning. This includes Barossa, Mount Gambier, Port Pirie, Berri, and Murray Bridge.

I hope that the majority of these centres will assist us in advertising the tournament, i guess it comes down to whether the centres are interested in the good of the sport, or the good of their own business.

cheers for now,
Paul Streatfield
Elizabeth Bowland

 

[emmtee83]

I guess it comes down to whether the centres are interested in the good of the sport, or the good of their own business.

Please don't take this next comment to heart, as I believe it would be better viewed as constructive criticism.

I'll start by saying I personally think Elizabeth Bowland have done fantastic things with the centre, and I commend them for putting all profits (or most) back into the CENTRE, unlike most other centres I know. And if you haven't been back there for a while, you don't know what you're missing. They lay a very nice pattern to bowl on and the scores WILL reflect how well you actually bowl. No lucky strikes there. It's well worth the trip.

In regards to above comments, Bowling centres have to act in the good of their own business, as for this particular weekend, Elizabeth Bowland has done the same thing. I don't know of the details, but I would assume (and as much as it is not safe to do so) the centre has had a social booking that could/could not be changed.
The result is a lot of senior bowlers not being able to bowl in this tournament because a clash of dates. I realise this happens a lot, but if Elizabeth Bowland wanted the 'high level' bowlers to support this tournament, either the date of the tournament or the social booking would be changed. Very difficult to do, I realise.

We all strive to do whats best for Tenpin Bowling in SA, but sometimes business and the development of Bowling clash within themselves. It's very hard to satisfy the two.

As for the kids of the state coming out to support these events, that also is very difficult. If you were part of this year's Shield team (which was VERY young), most of them/their parents are not able to contribute a couple hundred bucks to a pot that they have no chance of winning. Not a very wise investment, in my view. A couple of 'full grown' members have already expressed they cannot afford much, how can we expect these kids to? Just bowling well in league at the moment is probably enough to make a Shield team at the moment, and for some, that is enough of a challenge.

This issue, is very much about what one wants to get out of participating. If it's the money one wants to win, and if you are good enough, by all means, participate. If you are young and want to get some tournament/head to head experience on a DECENT oil pattern, by all means, participate. But if you don't think you're going to bowl any better or worse bowling on a sport pattern than bowling on a house pattern, you would achieve just as much in league than you would achieve in a tournament.

In closing, can you add my name to A squad Paul, much against my better judgement and all my previous comments, I don't think I have a chance of winning but I would like to see this (and other events) continue to be held in SA.

To all who are in the position, please continue to support these tournaments, otherwise there will be none to bowl in. Kudos to Paul and Simmo for their efforts to try and get tournaments like this running again.

Once again, Please don't take these comments as having a go at anyone, they're just my two cents worth, two cents I am more than entitled to spend.

 

[strop]

Michael,
I respect your comments but some of them, namely when it comes down to the cost and the very young shield team, I wasn't really aiming any of my comments to them. It's the 18 to 25 bracket I'm concerned about. Some of them will go to the AO and other interstate events but they won't support their own local events. Pathetic really. Certainly cost doesn't come in to it here, cheaper to bowl at home than go away.
As for seniors well really it really only affects a couple of people so I don't think the clash is really a Issue and the better ones will bowl Elizabeth.
As far as winning, to me it's all about competing, I too started out and I took my levels with each grain of salt. I first aimed to make a cut, even if I finished last in that cut, but once that happened i aimed a bitter higher and was lucky enough to get a bit higher. I has the passion to bowl in anything we could get our hands on, even going to Whyalla for a marathon.
I see Desmondo posting to sponsor bowlers in tournaments around the country, and I know he did sponsor someone in the Salisbury Cup earlier this year, perhaps he could concentrate on sponsoring still someone in his own state instead of interstate, maybe some-one here who REALLY needs it, someone just out of Juniors maybe. Although it still comes down to his money and it's up to him where he wants to spend it.
Maybe we can get some more females out to the Elizabeth tournament by maybe having a small $$$ for the highest placed female in the event, or youth maybe. Perhaps maybe we might see people out there like Dion, Kerry-ann .......etc, maybe even some of the youth that have promising talent (ha! ha!).
Let the old people stop winning these tournaments, Come-on the youth!
Cheers
Tony

 

[SNEEZY]

That is good to hear Paul.

Hopefully the centres will display the entry forms in there centres when bowlers will see them.

 

[emmtee83]

Tony I have to agree with you there in regards to the younger bowlers (understandably I also am young, however I refer more so to the juniors)

Thanks Tony for your comments.

When I was talking about the age of bowlers, I was responding to the age bracket mentioned above. But I can understand your viewpoint on most issues.

People like Dion, Kerry-Ann, Matt etc. I believe travel interstate because they can compete against other youth bowlers, and for the most part, they do very well against them. They also gain ranking points and have the opportunity to earn even more prize money than SA could ever offer. The time will come for them to come home and beat the 'old-timers', but possibly they have higher priorities (which is not necessarily a bad thing), like striving to bowl for Australia. The selection committee decides generally on results of tournaments interstate, not here in SA.

The conditions they throw on interstate I would say are quite different to what we lay down here, and let's face it. It's a proven fact that you do better on a condition you throw more on. If they bowl more on the patterns interstate, chances are they will do better when they bowl tournaments there. It's no big secret SA is way behind when it comes to conditions, etc.

Des is a very generous man in regards to his sponsorship offer, and for that I, and the rest of us, should thank and commend him. Not all of us can be in the position of sponsoring a bowler with promise. As to the state that particular bowler comes from, shouldn't matter. Would be nice if that bowler was from SA, but it's all in the name of the sport. In my association with BowlingBallsAustralia we sponsor several bowlers. Even though we have no staffers in SA, we are doing all we can to better the sport of Tenpin in general.

Agreed, these young bowlers could gain experience by bowling tournaments like these, but I believe they already have such a busy bowling schedule, also juggling work commitments and leagues in their lives. To add local tournaments to this schedule, I have no doubt, would put a strain on what little finances available to them.

Has anybody asked these bowlers why it is that they don't bowl these tournaments? Perhaps more could be accomplished than by just assuming they don't bowl for particular reasons.

Again, please don't take my thoughts as a dig at anyone or being insulting, just trying to look at things from a different perspective.

Thanks

 

[strop]

No problem Michael, I see you point.
You quoted,

The conditions they throw on interstate I would say are quite different to what we lay down here, and let's face it. It's a proven fact that you do better on a condition you throw more on. If they bowl more on the patterns interstate, chances are they will do better when they bowl tournaments there. It's no big secret SA is way behind when it comes to conditions, etc.

Not sure if I agree with you on that, over the years we have had our fair share of reasonable conditions, and please tell after just looking at the A.O results we can setup ditches just as good as they do.......don't see your point there?
Again if they cant beat the people back home what chance have they got out there in the big wide world. Think of us old timers as sparring partners.
You said.

Even though we have no staffers in SA, we are doing all we can to better the sport of Tenpin in general.

Curious why is that Michael?
So it's all about "Ranking Points"....Someone will really have to explain that to me one day.
I do and I have said previously we will be a tournament free state soon if everybody doesn't get behind our own tournaments , Elizabeth,Salisbury, Barossa etc........Is that what we all want. Mmmm???
Let support and concentrate on own first before we cross the border. Living in the past again, we had good tournament base events when ATBA was around and centres that supported it, and it made us a good state and help make many bowlers better for it. Just look at us now, Rachuig example!!!
We might look good, but lack certain qualities....
Anyway I still have too much passion for old ideas and values..........plus I'm rambling in the wrong post heading, I just don't wont more tournaments to die just like the rest of the country. Lets keep this one going.
Cheers
Tony

 

[emmtee83]

In answer to your question about staffers here in SA, it is in my view a business decision. It's not to say we won't have bowlers on staff in the future, but like all businesses, if you have a product to sell, you want people on staff who are able to give your product as much exposure as possible.

If we have staff who are willing to travel, the exposure to our product is greater than having staff who are willing to only bowl tournaments in their own state. Check the squad listings to the so-called 'major' tourneys the country holds. Not a lot of SA bowlers on those lists.

The bowlers who have bought from us, yourself included, have found the service and the product to be excellent. Due to certain elements, we have not had a lot of success here in SA and we believe word of mouth is the way to success for BBA here, not by having staff here.

Yes, we are all capable of laying ditches to bowl on, and bowling a 269avg to top qualify for a tournament, however remarkable, is not the answer. But those particular 'ditches' offer great prizemoney and ranking points, which I believe is a pretty good incentive if I wanted to put my hand up for Australian selection. I believe this may be only part of the reason why they do not bowl here.

I believe ranking points count for Australian selection..... which is what they want in the long run. If this is the case, bowling in tournaments that don't have points won't be recognised by that selection committee. If I am wrong about this, I stand corrected.

Maybe one of the youth guys can clarify this for me. Matty, you'd be a good one to ask, as you have already bought into this thread. Sorry for putting ya on the spot.

Of course we don't want the tournaments we currently have to become extinct, but maybe what we need here is the support of ALL centres in SA to conjure up something.....maybe even a committee to this effect? (sorry for going back to the ATBA days, and I agree with you Tony, the system back then DID work so much better!!) And just maybe we can take a leaf out of the Junior/Youth ranks who have a system setup, where they have at least 6 tournaments in the year. If they can do it, WHY CAN'T WE??

It's good that Salisbury and Elizabeth have started it, but it won't work without support from all centres. The problem still exists though. Getting the tournaments setup is good and all, but getting people to bowl in them is another story.

Again, another 2c.....this is getting expensive!!

 

[strop]

Thanks for that Michael, points taken............

Mmmm the "Selection" word, absolutely loathe that word. Especially when combined with Rachuig or Australian.

You know there was a time once when you got in the team by who you knew not what you know or can do for that matter.

Boy has it changed so much since then?

Anyway, how many weeks Paul have we till Elizabeth, hopefully you'll get a huge boost to the event.

On finishing Michael I do use Visionary gear, and be truthful it probably wouldn't matter what equipment I use, the result will still be the same. But I do like Max because stacey knew Max before I did (I think) and he looks after me, that's why I dont mind wearing his name on my back when I bowl, so he can have all my business. (Mind you with my open posts on here he probably wishes I didn't.)

Cheers

Tony

 

[Elizabeth Bowland]

Hi all,

at a quick glance we have 28 days (4 weeks) until the tournament. I have spoken to many people who are intending to enter the tournament but have not sent their entry in yet. I encourage these people to send these entries in, or at least post their name on this site. This will allow us to have a better idea of just how many people will be competing.

I am in the process of creating a couple of incentives for the youth bowlers as well as the female bowlers in order to encourage an increase in entries from these groups. I will be able to finalise these and post them tonight.

Cheers for now,
Paul Streatfield
Elizabeth Bowland

 

[strop]

Fantastic Paul, Thanks

 

[emmtee83]

Yes.....'Selection'. Interesting word, that one. These 'open' comments could start up all sorts of tremors. I'll stay right out of that though.

Having 'open' comments I think is the right way to go though, there's no hiding feelings that way and in the end, no one minces words.

You know you're always welcome to wear our shirt and say what you like!! Max is very much the same.

Good initiatives being used Paul, good work mate, and hopefully a few more will turn out for the tourney. Wish there were more people like yourself, putting in so much effort for the sport.

Let's get behind it people!!

 

[Andrew K]

I may be able to come but i depends as i may not be in the state at the time. I'll know in a couple of weeks whats going on with work and if i'm here i'll probarly put an entry in

 

[emmtee83]

Got me sold Timmy T to a squad brother... Dont worry strop i already have time of work for the year to bowl interstate events and local... catch ya'll there guys

 

[KANAFA!]

No problems Michael.
I am of the belief that ALL results are taken into account for national selection. This includes state roll off for Rachuig, Youth, Shield etc, state champs and of course state masters. The selectors as far as I believe also look at the local tournaments from state to state. I mean a win is a win, no matter what or where the tournament. They also look at a variety of lane conditions that you bowl on. (given that information is available)
You'd be very surprised at how much the selectors do their research (as they should) on bowlers around the country.

emmtee83The conditions they throw on interstate I would say are quite different to what we lay down here, and let's face it. It's a proven fact that you do better on a condition you throw more on. If they bowl more on the patterns interstate, chances are they will do better when they bowl tournaments there. It's no big secret SA is way behind when it comes to conditions, etc.

Michael I am not quite sure where you are going with this part or what you mean, however I can gaurentee that no pattern interstate has been the same. Ive been travelling interstate for a good 3-4 years now, at around 10-13 tournaments a year, and I can tell you right now that from centre to centre, year to year, you wont get a condition that plays the same. Obviously lane patterns play different on different surfaces, whether it be wood lanes or synthetics etc. There is also the weather and how many bowlers play on the condition that make it different. Because of these variences, there is certainly no way you can get 'used' to any particular pattern. By all means it can make you more aware of how lanes play and with that you can make moves or judgments on how a lane is playing quicker, but I can tell you I dont go to a tournament interstate and know exactly where I am going to throw the ball!
Sorry for the long post, I understand I got off topic for a bit but I just couldnt stop and was on a roll!!

Cheers,

Matt

 

[CHIN]

If all tournament results (State or National) are taken into consideration, why arent some of the Youth/Junior bowlers supporting the local scene.
I would have thought bowling as many tournaments as possible would look better to selectors.

Surely outlaying $150 to win $2,000 is less of a financial drain than spending $500-$700 on Entry, Airfares & Accomodation travelling interstate to a National Tournament. Im damn sure I would rather finish 1st, 2nd or 3rd in the Playford Classic & cash up to $2,000 than travel to a National tournament & finish 40th & get nothing. (Sorry 3 rating points.) Finishing 40th doesnt cover expenses.

Is it a case that they think there good enough to mix it with the "ELITE" (there's that word again) of Australia's Top bowlers, but to good, to lower there standards to compete against bowlers in local tournaments for fear of getting beaten by someone 2-3 times there age.