2004 Victorian Presidents Shield Roll-offs

[thokash]

Not only that, but when matchpaly arrives it is in 3 and 4 man teams...they give us a lousy 4 pairs to do the most important part of president shield trials...go figure

Not only do we have to wake up when its dark, we will get home when its dark too...and im sure that will make for get scores on Sunday hey...

Lates

 

[pRiNcEsSnOoF]

the reason you will be having 3 or 4 man teams during matchplay is because when you go away you will be bowling in 5 man teams so they want to get bowlers used to bowling in this situation. some people are not used to bowling in 5 man teams so this way they are able to practice bowling in larger teams and get used to what it is like to bowl in this situation for when they go away if they make the team.

 

[tonx]

i agree with Phil. The drain will be huge on us, especially for the bowlers who travel up on the saturday morning. If we face 40 degree weather there is an obvious danger for the younger bowlers especially.


I want to know if there was any way to change the dress code for the boys. Because i believe that the girls should not be the only ones who can wear shorts. would it do any harm to anybody if the rule was changed so as to include shorts in the boys dress code?


The reason i believe that it is a better thing for country bowlers is: I magine if it was held at geelong only... like it was with forrest hill this year. And bowlers had to travel from aulbry twice instead of once? There would be double the cost involved (petrol, accomidation etc) as well as the stress of rocking up in the morning still feeling like crap from the travel not once, but twice.


Let them try new things with the trials, a bit of fun and a change. i also like the idea of having the 4 man team head to head in stage 2. should be good fun. The only problem with this idea is that we hope to have enough bowlers this year to make it happen. i know that we lose a few bowlers from last year, but i hope it works.

The best bowlers will make the team, and victoria will be competitive in defending their shield win from this year. If bowlers don't make it they just weren't good enough this year, and should try again in the future. If i don't make the team i know that it was because i wasn't good enogh at the time and i won't be able to blame the format, or the lanes, or the weather or anything else just myself. good luck to all, and see you all there.

Andrew Tonkin

 

[taffie]

IF IT AINT BROKE DONT FIX IT!!!!!!!!!!
This is a tradgedy for victorian bowling because if the bowlers disagree with the format that is layed out in front of them how can the VTBA be happy with the job they are doing and have done, In my veiw if every one is disagreeing with the new format then the VTBA has failed in providing a fair and equal tournment for all junior bowlers across victoria

 

['arvey]

Where the country bowlers asked for their opinion?

I think you will find the country (and Metro) bowlers don't have a problem with bowling over two weekends. If you asked them, i think you will find that the concern is more about the number of practice/training sessions held after they make the team, rather than bowling over two weekends to make the team.

Country versus City? A little bit of friendly rivallry is alright but let's keep it in perspective! It is true that on most occassions country bowlers do travel further, but there have been many juniors trying out (and being successful!) in making the team over the years. So it would seem that the previous format for selecting the team was ok. As i said, i think you will find the travel aspect becomes more of a problem with the number of training sessions.

Just wondering when the forms might be readily available (like on the website, maybe). It is ok to release them at AMF shield (where, dare i say it, the city bowlers are able to access them straight away) but it would seem by the posts on here that the country bowlers have yet to see the entry form.

I can't comment on the format, as i have not seen it yet, but i hope that it will produce the best team. It does seem a lot to ask the juniors to bowl 13 games (is that correct?) in one day. I know that Junior Country Cup have bowled eleven games in one day, but they can rotate players, so most are not bowling 11 straight.

It would seem from the posts that they cut after 8 games (is that right?). Just wondering how many of last year's team would have missed? i think most tournaments have the cut after 10, 12 or 16 games.

It would seem that many are not happy, with the changes. It is fine to adjust and fine tune, but this does seem to be fairly drastic.

 

[tonx]

for all those concerned about not knowing the format. here it is.

stage 1:
10am, saturday 28 february 2004
wash and oil lanes
all bowlers will bowl 8 games qualifying. a lane change will be made after each 2 game block.

top 16 boys
top 12 girls by pinfall

stage 2:
3.30 pm, saturday (same day as 1st stage)

wash and oil
briefing
boys bowl 6 games (total of 14 for the day)
girls bowl 5 games (total of 13 for the day)

stage 2: (continued)
8.30 am Sunday 29th february
wash and oil
boys bowl 9 games
girls bowl 6

stage 2 will be head to head

boys will bowl 15 head to head (6 on saturday, 9 on sunday)
in 4 man teams

girls will bowl 11 head to head (5 on saturday, 6 on sunday)
in 3 person teams.

20 pins for win, 10 for draw.

top 7 of each make team.


as u can see interesting format. weird, but interesting

 

[Lace Dogg]

i belive that the main problem with the counrty bowlers making the team is the travell for all the practise sessions. making the team 2 times i know that it is very costally to be traveilling nearlly every second weekend.

the format off the trials WHERE great look at the team this year 1st and 2nd why change a winning team trials

VTBA u need to sit down and think what you are really doing to junior bowling in victoria and fast before u kill bowling and fall on ur ass :evil:

 

[craig]

firstly the shorter format

there is no 2nd chances at shield, why should there be at trials, come prepared, practise hard, bowl hard, and if your not good enough on the day, go back and practise harder

secondly to the location

geelong has supplied over 30 players to shield over the years, and has hosted maybe 5 trials, lane surfaces are similar to the nationals event too

thirdly to the committee knockers

if you dont like it, get on it and fix it yourself

and last of all

its pretty sad when people come on here with excuses to why they might fail in the lead up to the trials, i can guarantee that the players who want to make the team, are channelling all their energy positively into making the team, instead of worrying about the what if's

good luck to everyone having a crack at it next year, if everyone raises the standard, a winning combination will prevail

 

[flava35]

Just an idea.... why don't they use the tournament at Werribee as part of the qualifier. There were heaps there last year and we could pay an extra $50 towards qualifying for President Shield trails if you want to try out. Then we could have Geelong as the 2nd stage.

I know I will try out this year and as most of the others who will try out had bowled Werribee in 2003 any way.

Just food for thought,

flava.

 

[thokash]

Actually, I think you will find Mooroolbark (and Moorabbin for that matter) almost identical to the Illawarra lanes and conditions. Don't get me wrong, but if they were picking lanes similar to actual President Shield i'm sure they would have opted for one of these centres over Geelong.

The most games you ever bowl in a day is 6, so why not have 7 or 8 max a day, and the qualifying done in 5 man teams (of course over 2 or 3 weekends as this would never fit into 1). Why not cut after say 15 games and then another 15 games matchplay...thats as many games as your expected to play at shield, if not more.

As far as the centre goes, its really catch 22. There are always people going to be disadvantaged at the centre location and getting there (me being one of them). But its true, only 2 years ago did Geelong have trials there and, but then again Mooroolbark had it last year and Moorabbin the year before. I can understand when there are 2 or 3 weekend trials and there is a county centre location, but when there is only one weekend and its out at Geelong it could be an unfair advantage...

 

[flava35]

Who really cares where the trials are, it was just an example. But just remember that Nationals are bowled on wood not synthetic next year. VTBA have a policy (I think) of having trials on the same surface as Nationals.

It was just an idea any way.

 

[Lotus]

Firstly Craig, I'm too old to try out next year and I can see how bad this idea is...
President Shield bowl 6 games a day, and they are expecting them to bowl 13. I personally wouldnt worry about it, but some of these kids are 13 and 14 years old and dont have the experience that either you or I have, they cant bowl that many games and still shoot over the card or a decent score to get into the team.

Keon Park provided 5 bowlers for the Vic team this year, we never even had so much as a practice session anywhere near Keon Park.

I dont think incorporating the trials into a tournament is the answer either.
I think if they are doing this type of roll off they should take the top 5 and select 2.

This way if are bowling with an injury or happen to be sick on that weekend you dont miss out on a team you would have made through having any other roll off.

Craig, maybe you don't understand.. We DID try and do something. John Honeychurch went to the TBA with his concerns about the well being of the bowlers.

I think the TBA normally do a great job, and I really dont like when people bag them, however this is of some concern to the junior bowlers and their parents.

I think they should re-consider the trial process or at least hear the bowlers out, considering without us, there would be no bowling.

 

[thokash]

I was actually refering to craig's letter and not yours flava35

The fact is that the Youth team of 4 bowlers is decided in that exact manner with the Melbourne Youth Cup...but asking Juniors to participate in a Youth event would never work. If it was a Junior event however, it could be seen as something to do in the future.

They don't even need anything fancy like that though, just 2 weekends, one metro centre and one country centre and i'm pretty sure noone would have any beef.

 

[scoreggia]

Thokash .... you may not be aware that Illawarra is actually wooden lanes so I'm guessing you suggested the other spots because they are synthetic lanes.
And I've just seen the entry forms and now it looks like the only ones making the team will not be the lucky bowlers who have a couple of lucky games but those that can afford the hefty $1200- if you actually make the team. Has anybody ever heard the saying "if it aint broke don't fix it". What was wrong with the format that was???????????????

 

[fuzzy]

Phil

Whole heartedly concur,
can you image the following scenerio

40-42 outside 34-38 inside, kids sweating their heart and soul trying to be one of the best that weekend, lining up for their shots over that many games, dehydration sets in, craps, becomes violently sick, off to the local medics and told no you can't go back and bowl, and this is only day 1."Heartbreak".

Concequences/Failsafe measures I am sure would be in place ie:qualified first aiders,plenty of volunteers to keep reminding the kids to drink plenty and eat sensibly. But as we all know too well how is this going to be controlled when kids do their own thing out on the lanes(not that I am doubting the good intentions of everyone).

Now for the scary part, if somethings does occur in the extreme, is there Insurance being taken out by the commitee and volunteers or for that matter the propieters of the bowl to cover any contenious issuse arising.

as an adult bowler and as much as I love my sport I personally would not or allow my kids to bowl 13 games in the format for the weekend.

but said my piece as this forum allows, hope sense previals and more thought goes into it.

 

[Jessy_2_Messy]

I personally would not or allow my kids to bowl 13 games in the format for the weekend.
.

Hey, This is in reply to fuzzy and no1 else really considering I've only read one post in the whole 4 pages of this topic but just in what you said fuzzy I wanted to mention when I bowled shield we had 28 game roll off over one weekend 14 games each day in 4-5 man teams. One year we even bowled that up near Queensland and yep it was hot but we all survived (kids aged 11-17), no1 passed out, no1 threw up and no1 went to hospital. Sure its a tough weekend but thats why you train for it. Also, I think you're going to get the best team in terms of endurance out of that form of roll off.
Just a point of view on that particular topic from someone who has experienced it.
Jess

 

[Tiger]

I wanted to mention when I bowled shield we had 28 game roll off over one weekend 14 games each day in 4-5 man teams.

Hi Jess
Back in 1992, we did a 56-game roll-off to make the team.

Late January we hit Burnie for the weekend, 7-games on Saturday, 7-games on Sunday. {Paul, Kylie & Brenton Oakley and I almost got wiped out by a stupid woman driving a Volvo on the wrong side of the road in the fog at Conara Junction the first morning :lol: )
A fortnight later we hit Launceston for the weekend, 7-games on Saturday, 7-games on Sunday.
Another fortnight later we held the Hobart stage at Moonah, 7-games on Saturday, 7-games on Sunday.

The following week we held the Final Round at Moonah, with 7-games on Saturday, then the nailbiting final 7-games on the Sunday to determine who was in the side.

This finished in early-ish April I believe (I know I missed the first two roster matches the Tigers had played in that year).
It was a fairly long campaign, yes, but it was quite good though, thankfully we never had any severe heat days, like what Melbourne can get.

The following year, we had a 28-game rolloff.

If the Vics won this year, they probably should stick to the same formula.
PS: What's the player numbers like for the rolloffs in Victoria these days?

 

[craig]

lotus, obviously your a keon park player, the last time i can remember the state going near keon park was when i won the masters in 1985, i could be wrong

why i dont know, always was one of my favourite houses, and from what i hear, its still a great place to bowl

i can see everyones arguements here, what worries me, is too many people are focussing on negatives, to a format that really adopts a positive approach

there is no such thing as a bad day, you either make it or break it

as for 13 / 14 year old kids not being able to shoot the card, thats not true, lil example carl bottomley as a 14 year old junior was a par player with gear that was 20-30 pins worse than what you guys and gals use now, and if you state he is an exceptional case, i can name 20 other juniors at that age that could have easily met the task

committee's gain less respect for changing things they have done, than when just just make a poor decision.

i hear at every shield trial i have ever been to nothing but parental complaint about how much it cost to get their kids to the trials, you hear "we had to come this far" "we have paid $800 in accomodation to do this" etc etc, this is obviously an attempt at trying to cut costs to what we all know is a very expensive exercise.

whoever mentioned moorabbin and mooroolbark as similar surfaces, back to school you go

tiger, yes if it aint broken dont fix it, but this has been going on in victoria for years

if victoria was really serious about strengthening its junior ranks, employ rob zikman and sid allen, 2 of the best international coaches in our own backyard, have these guys been approached ???

 

[Rowdy]

i feel like i'm just repeating myself but i really disagree with the changes...
the main thing i dont understand is the reasoning i was given (to compensate for country bowlers) when none of the bowlers were asked for their opinion on previous roll-offs. cmon.. it was a winning formula!!

Not to mention- each day of President Shield 6 games are bowled with a break after 3. Prior to shield being bowled each member of the team bowls in nationals. There are two points to be made here. 13 games is crazy to be bowling when at no stage is it required to do so during nationals or shield. And even so, it calls for a long, tiring day which may not see the best performances from the bowlers who are in with a chance due to many factors such as illness etc. Secondly it is hoped that the bowlers can perform consistantly well during the time they are away. Although not so much during nationals- definately shield. This is more than just a weekend.

btw- i was surprised at reading a post before when it was said something was held with 14 games being bowled each day, and no body fainted etc. Sure, everything turned out fine then- but that's not to say that it cant happen, and i would really prefer not to take the risk if it can be avoided.

I know that no matter what happens with the roll-off format i will be trying out, but before drastic changes such as the ones been made are actually made, bowlers should be asked. They are what makes events like these possible afterall.

 

[*chook :>*]

im from 6 hrs away from geelong and i would say there are both negative and postitives about this change but ppl need to focus more on the positives.

whats done is done and its different and if it doesnt work and something goes wrong then it would probably be changed back.

the expense of travel and accomodation for me and my family will be cut emensly only having to travel down once.

i agree with one of craigs posts a bit back. this format will mean that the bowlers will need to "come prepared, practise hard, bowl hard, and if your not good enough on the day, go back and practise harder."

if they eat and drink right then they will get through the weekend with out hassles.

the only real problem i have is the fact of consistancy but i am now practicing more and harder which i believe everone should be doing.

alicia