What are your thoughts regarding Nationals

[tonx]

2 Opinions required.

1) Scoring rate. Is it where you want it to be?
For those that didn't make the trip will you attend nationals next year if the scores are predicted to be this high?

2) Masters format and qualifying. Both scores and Round byes/double byes/Brackets/automatic seeding for State qualifiers/payouts.
For non bowlers will this encourage you to bowl state masters or attempt to qualify for National masters next year?

What are your thoughts?

 

[mannah]

Scoring rate seemed very high and certainly unobtainable for me at the moment. Long way before I reach Rachuig standard I think.

Only been bowling about 7 years and attended the Nationals for the last 5 years but not this year. I am a restricted bowler (for the time being at least) with the demise of the WDV and with the last team squad available to qualify for Restricted Masters some 4 days prior to the master finals meant I would have a week off work and 4 extra days accommodation if I wanted to bowl in the finals. Its a pity that there was not a team squad available on the morning or evening before Masters so that if we just wanted to bowl Masters we could fit an all events in easily without a big gap.

Our State Champs (incl Masters qualifiying) last year clashed with the ATBSO State team rolloffs so choices had to be made and many bowlers chose ATBSO rather than the State Champs.

With so few spots available for qualifying at the Nationals for the Masters was also a disincentive to travel to Melbourne to try to qualify.

 

[Shoey]

Firstly to Mannah, scheduling was flexible. due to some family commitments for some of our group from Tamworth were unable to bowl on sunday 7th as we had previously planned so we asked the tournament committee to allow us to bowl a mixed teams in a squad not designated for teams, and that was fine, we just asked. i guess it had heaps to do with lack of entries for the week

as to scoring, i too am a restricted bowler and did attend. i took with me a 2005 model Storm Vertigo the bowling life of which was just about expired and a plastic. the Vertigo had a bit of shine on it and on day 1 of my bowling i bowled rubbish. i had it spun down to a dull look overnight and day 2 my scores improved but i still was not happy with them. i went across and saw Patrick Birtig at Morrabin (sorry if the spellings wrong) and purchased a Columbia 300 Resurgence and Rival. my scores went through the roof. my average for the 19 games i bowled with these balls whilst at the nationals was 204 and i normally average 173 and my overall tournament average for 46games ended up 189. yep i am happy now.

the glaringly obvious point to me is that the upgrade of equipment made a massive difference to me and my scores. i just had to put either ball on the lane there or thereabouts and the ball did the rest, both hit the pins hard. so as long as equipment assists in this manner scores are going to be through the roof. look how many records across all grades have been smashed (some literally torn apart).

that's not to say i would struggle on a different lane condition. but that's what was presented to me and everyone else and that was that.

as to masters, i was fortunate enough to be the NSW Restricted winner and was able to gain a spot by way of representation. but the field for both men's and women's was not full so this really meant nothing except for saving me the entry fee as it was paid by NSW association. i was unfortunate enough to be beaten in first round of matchplay 2 games to 1 when i actually won the pinfall but thems the rules and that was that. i thought the format was OK

Cheers
Shoey

 

[mmm]

Does anyone know yet where Next Years Nationals will be - Gold Coast we hope !!!!

 

[bm2]

We asked that same question of TBA when we were in Melbourne for Seniors Challenge - the only answer we got was "somewhere in Australia".....that answer seemed a little unusual in that tenders have usually been called and awarded for the next year BEFORE the start of the current years nationals, so that the bowlers all knew where they could be headed the next year......

 

[craig]

rivetting, its like watching grass grow

masters started at 4pm (well sort of) lets say 5pm, i had to leave at 8 to goto work, at this stage 6 games had been bowled with 2 per lane, so all up 12 games per lane, its 15-20 minutes a game, its slow, its boring and as a spectator no matter how high it is, its hard to keep paying attention too

yeah i know tonx, that was question 3

scoring high, but the cream is still rising to the top

format good, i'm a fan of the mystery that masters brings

and one last thing, altona the perfect venue for big events, nice and spacious, its rare you goto a nationals and can move around so freely

 

[bm2]

anyone else having trouble accessing the masters scores this morning????

 

[Bowler]

My only though is on the Masters I like the 5 games win 3 idea. But what I don't understand is the bye setup was there a reason for this as I have no idea happy to hear it. If it was to get more numbers in it,why not run it excalty like tennis and have a field of 64 if 10 short ok have byes but none of them pass the 1st round.

 

[Sydpies]

Interesting Stats on the last 5 Nationals:

2003 = 12841 games
2004 = 12833 games
2005 = 12674 games
2006 = 12385 games
2007 = 8910 games
Just goes to show WHY our CEO & TBA board should not have disbanded our GREAT tournament team in Peter, Rhonda and Co.

2008 looks pretty lean already........

 

[STKFC1]

Does any body know where next years Nationals will be or are the majority of people not really interested?

Guess I just stay in Adelaide and Bowl at the Darrell Holt.

Cheers
Mick

 

[KnuckleHead]

probaly Queensland or ACT will host who knows you will have to wait to find out.

 

[RobbieB]

With the demise of the DeVeer tournament, number were always going to be down - I guess its up to the board to work out how to replace those bowlers.

The key to a successful Nationals is to attract bowlers from all average levels to compete. Cutting the classifications back to just two would be a disaster IMHO. Now, looking from a purely financial point of view, your 'average bowler' is travelling a long way to bowl three sets for ninety bucks with no real prospect of getting anything significant back. That isn't going to change in a hurry, so we need to make it attractive for other reasons.

What about teaming up with an accomodation chain, Virgin Blue, and a handful of local attractions and put together a 'Holiday at the Nationals' package for a 3-5 day family holiday? A lot of people take holidays every year, so we should be able to talk a few into having a bowl while they are at it.

There is nothing wrong with the Nationals per se, it's a marketing problem to get people to want to go.

For Tonks question, I prefer a tougher shot and lower scores. Most people don't and there's more money in most people than in me. If higher scores attract more bowlers, then so be it - open em up a bit.

 

[wchester]

The key to a successful Nationals is to attract bowlers from all average levels to compete. Cutting the classifications back to just two would be a disaster IMHO.

So you don't think my plan will work..what do you propose then? As it stands, the 2007 Nationals only attracted 331 individual bowlers. Hell, the bowl at Altona alone should've contributed that many entries.

Have a look at grades C and D..a grand total of ZERO senior bowlers entered and a pitiful total of 18 men and women combined in the non-senior side... It's just a waste of time..and an unnecessary expense to run those divisions.

See if you can find the names of any past champions anywhere on the TBA website. If they didn't win one of the "elite" events ( Masters, Classic Cup, Restricted Cup, Rachuig etc) their name is nowhere to be found. In America, an Eagle is award to each and every bowler who wins a division title in the Nationals and it is a very respected accomplishment. Here, you get no mention on the TBA site except for the current results page...what a joke!

This tournament must be promoted and promoted hard. Why aren't the bowlers entering?..is it the lack of money in the prize fund or could it be as I see it, the lack of recognition even within the industry. I don't believe there was one entrant from the Bowl here in Bendigo..and we're only a 2 hour drive away.

Changes need to be made NOW!

Wayne Chester
Candidate for TBA Chairperson

 

[~Mrs STORM~]

1) This years scoring rate was too high.
I didnt like the shot that was layed down as I thought it was way to open and led to ridiculous scoring. Bowlers were not penalised for throwing a bad shot - missing right, comes back, missing left it holds.

2) I like Masters as it is...however I think that the State reps and anyone else gaining auto entry into Masters should be seeded into the finalists depending on their highest qualifying series, so if this means they dont bowl well enough to have a bye for the first round thats just too bad.

 

[Bowling Balls Australia]

This tournament must be promoted and promoted hard. Why aren't the bowlers entering?..is it the lack of money in the prize fund or could it be as I see it, the lack of recognition even within the industry. I don't believe there was one entrant from the Bowl here in Bendigo..and we're only a 2 hour drive away.

And therein lies our biggest problem Wayne - a lack of direction from TBA nationally, followed by a lack of promotion by state TBA bodies (maybe not all), then a lack of promotion by association officials and hence league secretaries, and consequently the bowlers are none the wiser. The chain of 'command' is failing at the top, and with that failure the average league bowler who may be inclined to try out..............

I was informed last year there were approx 66,000 registered league bowlers in our country (I do not know how true that figure is, but I would guess it to be not too far off the mark), yet on our biggest forum we have only 3953 members here (not knocking you Jase, what you do is great and I know you are trying to expand membership) - which is only 6%. We know about Nationals, but what about the other 94%?

The message is not getting deep enough - somehow we have to have more governance and direction to ensure EVERY bowler has the information and the chance to make a decision. At the moment the vast majority of league bowlers are in the dark.

Max

 

[Brenton_Davy]

There are too many splinter groups running their own race, some promoting their own level of mediocrity or just being plain stubborn. When the DeVeer (now Holt) bowlers decided to take their series and play somewhere else because they were going to be stripped of their "State Representation" status, and the ATBSO also decided to run their own race, it sounded a death knell for the nationals, robbed it of probably half its entries and it atmosphere.

Why did this all occur?

Because these splinter groups could and would not play by the rules as set down by the NSO. Whether these rules were reasonable or not is not the issue. These bodies have decided that they are not going to play by the guidelines as currently set down. My views on DeVeer/Holt and their credibility as State Representatives is well known and needs not be further expanded here, but people have to realise that an attitude of taking their bat and ball and playing somewhere else does NO-ONE any good. We have a NSO for a reason and if you don't like the people running it, DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT, don't just sit behind a computer all safe and commitment free and bellyache or get all smug and say "I told you so!"

I have always had a philosophy that, if I don't have the time or desire to do the job myself, then I won't complain about those who do. I choose to do my bit to promote the sport by helping out with the "Tenpin Bowling Show". I have no desire to get involved with the running of the NSO, but I do from time to time express my opinion to the board as to what I think should be done. Sometimes my suggestions are acted upon, sometimes not.

It is apparent to me that these splinter groups are not willing to talk to TBA and it is possible that TBA wishes no loinger to talk to them. This is the area that needs to be addressed.

Waynes idea of 2 grades (open and restricted is (in my opinion) flawed due to the constant spectre of "average management" and the fact that some bowlers come from much tougher centres than others and until a national par ranking system for all bowling centres is introduced, the system is opn to abuse and complaint.

Wayne, I see you state you are a candidate for TBA Chairperson. I hope you do get to fill that role as a person of your expereince would be an asset to the sport

 

[CHIN]

There are too many splinter groups running their own race, some promoting their own level of mediocrity or just being plain stubborn. When the DeVeer (now Holt) bowlers decided to take their series and play somewhere else because they were going to be stripped of their "State Representation" status, and the ATBSO also decided to run their own race, it sounded a death knell for the nationals, robbed it of probably half its entries and it atmosphere.
Why did this all occur?
Because these splinter groups could and would not play by the rules as set down by the NSO. Whether these rules were reasonable or not is not the issue. These bodies have decided that they are not going to play by the guidelines as currently set down. My views on DeVeer/Holt and their credibility as State Representatives is well known and needs not be further expanded here, but people have to realise that an attitude of taking their bat and ball and playing somewhere else does NO-ONE any good. We have a NSO for a reason and if you don't like the people running it, DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT, don't just sit behind a computer all safe and commitment free and bellyache or get all smug and say "I told you so!"
I have always had a philosophy that, if I don't have the time or desire to do the job myself, then I won't complain about those who do. I choose to do my bit to promote the sport by helping out with the "Tenpin Bowling Show". I have no desire to get involved with the running of the NSO, but I do from time to time express my opinion to the board as to what I think should be done. Sometimes my suggestions are acted upon, sometimes not.
It is apparent to me that these splinter groups are not willing to talk to TBA and it is possible that TBA wishes no loinger to talk to them. This is the area that needs to be addressed.
Waynes idea of 2 grades (open and restricted is (in my opinion) flawed due to the constant spectre of "average management" and the fact that some bowlers come from much tougher centres than others and until a national par ranking system for all bowling centres is introduced, the system is opn to abuse and complaint.
Wayne, I see you state you are a candidate for TBA Chairperson. I hope you do get to fill that role as a person of your expereince would be an asset to the sport

Hope your not sitting under a fan Brenton.

 

[Bowling Balls Australia]

You are right Brenton, there are some people who will just whinge and *****.

There are however some people who have the abilities to do something positive for the sport by putting their hands up - but get knocked back on their offers or even accept a meeting re being offered a position, to then have the offer withdrawn as the "powers that be" may suddenly feel threatened.........

The one thing that has to happen is all members should have the right to vote as to who gets elected, and this has to be open individually, not through an association representative. Then and only then will we have a system where the majority of voters truly get a say in who represents us.

Max

 

[rambo1]

has anyone watched GROUNDHOG DAY it's been since 1961

 

[Andrew S.]

The one thing that has to happen is all members should have the right to vote as to who gets elected, and this has to be open individually, not through an association representative. Then and only then will we have a system where the majority of voters truly get a say in who represents us.
Max

Exactly right. Good call.