Tonight I had to send an email...

[Andrew S.]

To someone who is not quite 21 years of age.

This person held up their hand and nominated to manage a State Youth Team.

I had to advise that person that TBA have in its wisdom determined that anyone under the age of 21 is not deemed to be competant enough to manage a State Bowling Team.

You can of course do a great deal of things when you reach 18 but apparently Team management in Australia is not one of them.

I can think of a great many people well over the age of 21 who would be totally incapable of managing a State Team, however this random decision to deliberately bypass our youngsters, when they are willing to come forward and nominate at personal expense, really demonstrates the attitude of a NSO that is as usual totally out of touch with reality.

 

[Samael]

Right, so they are willing to take on the responsibility and the stress that comes with the position, willing to put up their own time and money, yet that doesnt go far enough to establish the desire to fill the position?

christ, i know a whole bunch of 20 somethings who have done sweet bugger all, no life experience at all and no desire or motivation to do anything, but they stand higher than someone clearly showing the desire to represent their state?

i can see the point that tba probably tried to make, but come on, its a little bit narrow minded isnt it? shouldnt the decision be left up to members who have actually had a chance to meet the person and perhaps know a little more about their history? if the application has merit certainly exceptions can be made cant they?

Or are we(they) so stubborn and set in our ways that an obviously flawed rule cant be taken as a guideline, rather than the absolute end of?
Im really getting annoyed with the way everything (not just bowling) is going, once upon a time rules were in place to aide the people participating, these days it seems more like an avenue for a power tripping junkie to get their fix. IMHO, just about every rule book in the country could do with an opening paragraph stating the following rules should be utilised more as a guideline and implemented at the discretion of members with the sole intent of benefiting the greater community.

Have you an option of recourse on the matter andrew, or is it pretty much case closed?

poor form if the latter is true, if anyone wanted to know what is wrong with the sport, forget the rules, the lanes, the conditions, the equipment, the pointless bickering and infighting, its the attitudes at the top that need some serious reconstruction.

 

[stormy]

OK, I'm sure a lot of parents of juniors would not want thier children in the hands of say for arguments sake 19 year old or what about someone who is 18 looking after a state team. Would you send your children away with a coach who has just got their licience to drive (still on P's) and a manager the same age. Sorry to tell you, I for one would object strongly if this was the case. As a parent I believe that the safety of the children is paramount - don't you?

 

[Krissy]

OK, I'm sure a lot of parents of juniors would not want thier children in the hands of say for arguments sake 19 year old or what about someone who is 18 looking after a state team. Would you send your children away with a coach who has just got their licience to drive (still on P's) and a manager the same age. Sorry to tell you, I for one would object strongly if this was the case. As a parent I believe that the safety of the children is paramount - don't you?

It's a youth team - not a junior team.

 

[Jase]

Looks to me like Andrew Johns has been sharing his Disco Bickies…

 

[JWhitty]

...IMHO, just about every rule book in the country could do with an opening paragraph stating the following rules should be utilised more as a guideline and implemented at the discretion of members with the sole intent of benefiting the greater community.

FIFA (Soccer) have a similar concept in the rulebook, where the responsibility of the referee is explicitly set:

uphold the spirit of the laws of the game

so we actually have some freedom of intrepretation and application. The downside of course is some referees interpret so liberally and some so strictly, consistency goes out the window.

It occurs to me to wonder if he has a case for discrimination against his age, and that the rule in question may be "unconstitutional". It's one thing to demand at least 18, because there are legal responsibility issues, but after 18 I don't think this country draws any other lines does it?

 

[Andrew S.]

Stormy anyones safety is paramount, not just the childrens.
If TBA believes so strongly in duty of care, how come Level 2 coaches don't have to be 21?
What if a Team can get a Coach and not a Manager?
If car hire or transport is a problem the State body would certainly recognise that and act accordingly. Ever heard of taxis, or even Maxi-Taxis?
The bottom line is that in Australia everyone except TBA considers you to be an adult at 18 years of age.

 

[Cam S]

Looks to me like Andrew Johns has been sharing his Disco Bickies…

deadset pearson if u are gonna use my lines can you please quote me

Back to topic

I really dont understand why the age limit needs to be anything over 18 for a youth team. Its not like they are taking kiddies away you talkin about a team of young adults surely another young adult can take them away.

 

[xballs]

I had a friend who was a state manager of a large corporation by the time they were 21 he was in charge of many people & twice his age. He took their company from not making any money into making huge profits.

I also have a friend who is 40 & has not had a job in 15 years.

To me is not the age of a person which makes them mature enough to lead people - it's the person themselves. If someone has the desire & drive to do this - give them ago, guide the them thru - they might just the person who brings this sport back to place it should be.

Dave Kuhn

 

[BT]

I am the manager of the South Australian Open Ladies Indoor netball side. WE go away on Saturday, I will let you know how it goes, however up until this point, it has been a wonderful experience and is something that anyone should do if they are given the opportunity, especially if this young person is trying to break into the state team. By going away as a manager, you can see how things are done and what the competition is like so you can gain experience and knowledge going into the next trials.

 

[lgt]

In NSW we were not informed before three of our younger members attended the Managers Course. It was unfortunate that the organisers did not let us know until half way through the course.

One turns 21 shortly but the other two will have to wait...they will be automatically accredited when they reach the age limit. I don't know if they will continue with the impetous to be involved.

Perhaps there could be roles for under 21 having done the Managers Course, as an assistant manager only. We have had younger members as assistant managers to gain experience before.

Leanne.

 

[KriDdLe]

Would you send your children away with a coach who has just got their licience to drive (still on P's) and a manager the same age.

The team has more then one manager and its not just the manager that is allowed to drive the bus. Not to mention a 20 year old would have had there license for 3 years. I think thats a fair bit of experience.

Also the entry forms into the managers course does not state anywhere about having to be over 21 years of age??

If your legally allowed to smoke drink and go clubbing after the age of 18 why are you allowed to do something responsible/beneficial like manage a team??

It shouldn't be up to the discretion of someone who doesn't know the person in the position, but more the team itself... if they don't feel comfortable with the manager selected then they should have the right to decide that.

 

[Easy Tiger]

Particularly with youth teams why does it matter. I mean honestly, the team is more likely to function and perform well if the entire group is on the same page - and that's more likely to be the case if the team is a bunch of 18-25 year olds, rather than having a wider range of ages. No offense to any of the more experienced adults that help with the rolloffs and the organising and the many who manage and coach the teams now, but I think the team as a whole would be more relaxed and fun-orientated if the age groups were similar.

There are a lot of 18-25 year olds around who could do a pretty good job of managing a youth team.

 

[KnuckleHead]

Stormy anyones safety is paramount, not just the childrens.
If TBA believes so strongly in duty of care, how come Level 2 coaches don't have to be 21?
What if a Team can get a Coach and not a Manager?
If car hire or transport is a problem the State body would certainly recognise that and act accordingly. Ever heard of taxis, or even Maxi-Taxis?
The bottom line is that in Australia everyone except TBA considers you to be an adult at 18 years of age.

Just reading Andrew S's post it's good to see that. I'm a Level 2 Coach in Hockey and yet i'm able to take state away if i have the right accreditations and the experience with me. I've only just turned 21 and i had my level 2 just after i turned 20 but it's alot harder to obtain a Level 2 Coaching as it comes with requirements. I think it's alright going away with a team to manger it's experience aswell.

 

[stormy]

Just where do you draw the line between Youth and Junior? It is stated in the managers handout that the minimum age requirement is 21 (this meaning that the applicant must be older than 21 years of age). How could you possibly let a 20 year old look after 15 and 16 year olds who compete at youth?

As of early 2007, bowlers under the age of 16 have been allowed to compete in the Youth Teams Challenge. When dealing with bowlers of this age group, there is a duty of care that needs to be enforced not only to the participatants but also to the parents.

 

[KriDdLe]

i've seen the nomination form, and maybe they have made a mistake, but i can't find it anywhere?? whats the different between a 20 year old and a 21 year old??? You got to look at the individual going for the position, some people are more mature then others.

Why can't assistant manager be accepted?

People complain that there is not enough participation in the bowling, but when someone tries to make the effort they get knocked down saying their not old enough. How is that fair??

 

[Jase]

Agreed…I have a 16 Year Old apprentice and I can tell you I wish I had more workers like him…He runs rings around another guy I have here who is 6 years older than him…It’s the individual not the Age that makes a difference…If you sit any course and pass, paid the money and get the results, then why are they not as qualified as the Man or Woman that has sat beside them in the same course…Too many people in this Sport living in the Dark Ages…

Maybe they all need to Grow Up and get with the times…

 

[Andrew S.]

People complain that there is not enough participation in the bowling, but when someone tries to make the effort they get knocked down saying their not old enough. How is that fair??

Right on Krystal, I'm with you.
As you know I'm the first to criticise bowlers for not participating in the Admin side of things so when they do, and they are genuinely interested, it comes as a shock to find they aren't allowed to.
I still dont understand how someone under 21 is considered incapable of rendering duty of care.
One of my nearby residents has 2 young children. She is a single mother and a very competant one at that. No-one knows more about duty of care than her, and she is just 19 years old.
Any parent who is concerned about the welfare of their children where a young manager is involved would surely check out the credentials of anyone else accompanying that Team.

 

[Easy Tiger]

Just where do you draw the line between Youth and Junior? How could you possibly let a 20 year old look after 15 and 16 year olds who compete at youth?
As of early 2007, bowlers under the age of 16 have been allowed to compete in the Youth Teams Challenge.

I might get shot down for this but then if that is the concern, perhaps Junior bowlers (ie - defined as under 18) should not be allowed to compete in youth teams. Not only for the reasons you have stated with some parents being concerned about their welfare, but also because it can become awkward when 3 of the team want to go out for a drink or two (or more..) and the junior can't participate in that. That's why we have President's Shield..!

 

[June Voukolos]

The decision to make 21 the age limit for being a Team Manager was made by High Performance Coaches prior to the writing of this course.
As a Duty of Care situation, in this day and age with Child Protection, Anti Harrassment laws and situations of crisis and conflict management, the team manager is placed in various situations to manage all of the above. The Team Manager is the spokesperson and face of every team but to keep the costs minimal there is no personal insurance supplied by TBA. All Managers will if they wish have to buy their own personal indemnity insurance.
We are not judging how competent individual 18 year olds may be - we know that there are some very responsible, resourceful and intelligent young adults in the rank and file of would be coaches and officials. However this was a generalisation of the age we believe the majority of young adults will be able to adequately handle any of the above situations. Often there are siblings and partners still in junior or youth teams and the manager is not only dealing with the team but parents, coaches, other supporters etc. A Manager must also deal with situations of fair play and equality within the team ranks. Would we be fair in asking an 18 year old to handle all of these situations? We as a group do not think so.
I hope this answer can give you some insight into this decision. We would recommend than any young adult who does this course be placed as an Assistant Manager prior to them attaining the age when their accreditation may be activated.
June Voukolos