The Price You Pay For RACHUIG

[legs11]

It seems like every year I am stunned at the price of Rachuig. Not just money wise but team member wise. For me I feel a great injustice has been served. I wonder if there is any point in bowling tournaments when it seems to me that past performances do not stand for anything.
Don't get me wrong, the QLD rachuig team is fine and the selectors did their job, but was there enough thought behind their actions. This whole 'you must submit a resume' is fine, but does anyone really look at this???
I am not trying to pin point problems, and I know what a shit job it would be to be a selector, but I just find that too many times have people deserve and have bowled well in the past to be in the team are knocked back all because of a bad weekend. Myself included.

 

[Levithian]

Well it is going that way with all forms of representation it seems. Yeah it does bite the big one if you have a terrible weekend and you just cant get it together, but thats the point. I surpose in a way it is about weeding out the people who can't perform in a pressure situation when it is expected of them. I dont think many people will argue that rolling off for your state is one of the biggest pressure situations you are probably going to encounter while bowling. One thing that has slowly been getting worse is the number of complaints about the rising costs associated with both the roll off and the event itself. Just when you think you have worked out the pricing scheme something else comes around that makes you wonder where the hell all these charges are coming from. (perhaps this is an issue that needs to be looked at ? , the bowlers seem to be wanting a detailed analysis of just where the costs come from)

Ohh well, if you bowled terrible legs11, there is always next year, it's just the nature of competition that somebody has to loose, and if you dont perform, well then it is probably going to be you.

 

[GeorgeF]

Legs

I hear what your saying, Qld rachuig has always had some mystery surrounding it especially when it comes to selecting. Like the year the picked Ian Hughes and Robbie Muller (no offence to either bowlers) over Brandon Qual and Jason Walsh. I don't know what they were thinking but to leave out 2 Australian reps who can bowl under pressure and have International experience I would personally think the team could do with talent like that.

Further to your post, I know we have a QLD team for 2003 but lets look at some of the bowlers who didn't roll off who MIGHT have made it...........

Carl Bottomly
Jason Walsh
Cameron Walsh
Andrew Drew
Brandon Qual
me
Brian Pilkington
Tony Hamilton

I guess thats the problem with QLD, we never truly represent the best bowlers for the job at hand. By no means am I making any offence to the current bowlers, I am merely trying to prove a point. Queensland can win Rachuig, its just a matter of getting the right processes in place.

If I had it my way (it's good to dream) there would be

* NO ROLL OFF! It would be submit your resume, lets look at your tournament experience and we'll see if we can find you a spot.

* NO COACH (no offence Gail) but at that level and with the bowlers we have I think we can feed off each other to get lane reads and decide who's bowling well and who's not. With a strong team, bowlers will feed off each other and pull themselves out if they are struggling. I don't mind bowling rachuig and bowling just 1 game if we win, bowling as a team is what we've been missing.

* A GOOD MANAGER Who will keep the esky full and get us our lunch when we need it

I could go on but I feel this post has already gone too far. I'm expecting the abuse, but hey this an open forum and I'm just voicing my views.

I did not roll off for Rachuig this year as I was overseas for one roll off and after long and careful consideration I felt $1500 would be better spent bowling a few tournaments and earning some money. Just my personal views................ :twisted:

 

[Funky Chicken]

George,

I hear what you are saying and in some ways I totally agree with you. I mean when NQ win Rachuig this year I would love to have beaten an SQ side that had the likes of Bottomley, Drew, Walsh and the likes and other States with their best bowlers.

I suppose a lot of these guys have been there and done it so it doesn't hold the aura that it once did, but imagine if Lleyton Hewitt and Co. felt that way about Davis Cup - you'd have a bunch of 2nd rate players representing Australia (and probably getting their behinds kicked by teams we should beat).

$1500 is a lot of money, but a bit of co-ordinated effort in the fundraising area would see this money raised easily. We are currently doing fund raising for intercity teams and simple things like fundraising chocolates are raking the money in (people loves chocolate = easy money).

We have also got a reactive ball (thanks to Carl TRAD) and shoes donated for a raffle which is sure to be a winner. Motivation to fund raise should be easy, because the more money you raise, the less that comes out of your pocket (and before anyone says it yes I do work full-time and I do have a family so that's not an excuse).

Rachuig has always been the jewel in the Australian bowling crown, and should remain that way for generations to come. It is supposed to be an exhibition of the Countries top bowlers, and motivation for the Nations up and comers to give them something to strive for. Sure it doesn't have prize money (maybe TBA could look at that for the future) but representing your State is something that should be an honour second only to representing your Country.

I mean imagine if the PBA and PWBA decided to stop bowling Pro-Ams and the like because they weren't making lots of money, that would be detrimental to the promotion of bowling.

This is just my opinion

Cheers

Steve Hunt

 

[kablam]

i can understand what you are all saying i think whenever a team is "selected" there is always someone to say this person should be in over this person.

i have never been in favour of roll offs and think they should not be the basis of the selection process(probly the only time i will ever agree with george)

i also feel that it may not have to be the best 7 indvidual bowlers that are on offer but to be the rep team but the 7 make the best team (if that makes sense)

also if those bowlers not wishing to take part in a rachuig team be it the cost as we all know to represent now it cost more than ever or the fact that they feel they have been there done that it, i would rather a team of 2nd rate bowlers there with the passion to win and the bowlers who get goose bumps everytime they pull on that Qld jacket than to have the top guys there just because they thought to hell with it lets bowl

just my opinion
kablam boys

p.s dont forget to bowl in the burdekin open 5th 6th n 7th of september!!!!!!!

 

[Sean M]

I think you have your dates wrong kablam...Burdekin Open is the 12th - 14th unless things have changed.

 

[Andrew S.]

George, just to pursue the selection part a little.
Assuming 7 are selected on resumes who does the selecting and what criteria do you ask the selectors to look for?
And what about current form versus past history?
The problem as I see it with total selection at a State level, is that no-one would apply for the job.
Look at the huge criticism there is over the selection of the National teams.
I think a preferable method of selection would be to use a rating system.(I always thought the National ratings were created in order to avoid all the unpleasantness caused by selection.)

 

[MarkV]

First past the post is the only fair way to select the team. I believe that selection on Merit ( whatever that is ) is open to interpretation and fiddling. How is a new guy /gal going to prove they have the stuff if in order to be considered they have to bowl a whole bunch of tournaments. Talk about expensive ! I do feel that the cost of actually sending the team should be met by the state somehow( fair enough everyone should fundraise ). Just my 2 cents

 

[legs11]

George, you have read my mind. Too many times has teams just missed out on winning because they were missing a couple of bowers who you know could bowl the pressure situation and have proven it time and time again but were left out because of a bad weekend or worse, injury.
The bad thing is, it is not just Rachuig. Have a look at Pres.shield and even just area association.
I feel that alot of our up and coming juniors feel very discouraged when they don't make the team because of a bad day, when in fact they have showen great potential in past time.
The only reason why I have written this is to hopefully get through to some or at least one selector, that as easy as it is to justify picking the next two from the post, have a look down and look at the people who didn't make it. Why did you not pick them and have you made the right decition for the team?
This is not to pin point every selector is crap but some crappy decitions have been made.
But in retrospect, I guess that is the whole "fun" of bowling

 

[Levithian]

All points aside, i think we are forgetting one thing. This is a sport, we turn up to compete, if we cant cut it on the day we loose. Essentially you should be looking at a roll off as any other tournament, you know what you have todo, you have to go out there and bowl well. If you fail, well you fail there isnt much more to it. You might have had a shitty weekend, the conditions didnt suit you, or you may be carrying an injury. The point is it rests in your hands as a competitor. Reguardless of the reasons thats just the way it goes, why should a team roll off be any different than say your local tournament?

To me the problem with pretty much all forms of sport is people make too many excuses. I dont know about you guys but when a competition comes round i go out there to bowl and to bowl well. I know what i have todo and i know personally that if i fail it is my own fault. If you miss the team instead of talking about why you think you (or someone else) should have made the team, you should be thinking just what you did wrong, how you can correct it and planning for next time.

A little off topic, does anyone think conditions are lacking during roll offs? I dont mean, they are terrible, but when was the last time you actually bowled on a similar pattern during a roll off that you will encounter during the tournament itself?

 

[strop]

I see selection is a big topic here for some of you qld bowlers.......getting the big names who should be there because of the amount of experience you have or the team just looks good on paper,
My own opinion is that while selection is there and there is human intervention you will never get it right. Oh we like him so pick him/her or look at what he's done let's pick them. And of course I'm sure you have got bowlers who has done it all and been there to know what it's all about as selectors.........Doesn't work trust me. We in S.A. used to have selection until 1985 when it was changed to the first 7 past the post. You earn your way into the team fairly ....sure you might have a bad week-end in trials but that's the way it goes. No-one can argue then and it hasn't come down to how the selectors feel or who in that meeting will dictate on the outcome.
There has been many a time where on paper the team looks unbeatable (Vic 1988 on home ground) but they have been beaten by a team of first 7 past the posters..........................S.A.
Can you remember back then george!
Unfortunatly Rachuig has lost it's apeal for alot of bowlers including myself (maybe next time it's here) ........it's just not the same anymore plus I still like the peterson point format of old (as well as head to head) to be a true representation of the winning state.....and being able to bowl for another state........please why bother!!!
Tony

 

[kablam]

thanx seanm i did have my dates wrong......my bad

open is the 12th 13th n 14th

cheers amigo

 

[Gail Torrens]

Hi Guys

I respect all bowlers who roll off. They put their money where their mouth is and put their name to their performance.
This year we had a meeting of bowlers, admin persons, coaches, and representatives from other rep teams to combine views.

Our goal was to change the system for the better. Selectors forms were prepared early - nominations forms out early - and distributed for anyone to apply - I did not see people want to change or have a voice on how things were done then. TBAQ had their AGM - Another opportunity to voice an opinion and have changes put in place - No I did not see anyone there either - all the people who work hard for the bowlers were there.


Selectors are accountable. We are all accountable. Mention was made of passing up bowlers of previous years for the likes of Ian Hughes and Robbie Muller - I do not know how you could single these guys out - Robbie was 'all star' on the year you are complaining he got in the team!!!!!!!!

I am sorry but it is personal when you mention names - It is insulting also.
I have seen GREAT bowlers not bowl well at Rachuig - this does not make them any less of a bowler because they had a bad tourny - that is the way it is. To get into the team you ned to address the lane for the roll off and be in the top 5 because at the roll off potential and $2 will buy a cup of coffee.
Bowl on our side with us then air your opinion on THAT year because every other year is different. How can you rate your comments as fair in most circumstances -
Some of you are misinformed.

To people starting out in tournaments Rachuig is a premier event. There is nothing that equals it in the world.
Costs - it cost hardly anything to bowl Rachuig - NOT $1500 as mentioned in these posts. All Bowlers on the SQ side are given $1000 of raffle tickets to subsidise their fares and expenses - they sell the tickets - they pay very little. They choose not to sell the tickets it costs them the full fare - EASY. That was more ideas to assist the bowlers from the management team.

George on your first roll off you were selected on your performance at the roll off - Noone knew this guy from North Qld from a bar of soap - but you displayed talent on the lanes and earned your position in the team. You were given a break. Some things work out - I am pretty sure you would not have liked to hear the comments about your selection that year - George I never stop bowlers lining up off each other - this happens just as naturally as breathing in and out.


If you want to bowl Rachuig BOWL so well that people look silly to miss you. As I tell the people I coach DO NOT RELY ON SELECTION ANYTIME. Be the best. Be the master of your craft.

If you do not finish in the top 3 you are then one of the many - Come back again and try out next time just as you would a tournament.
Rachuig bowlers are all good - It is electric - It is tough - It is great.

If you ask all the bowlers mentioned on the list from Legs - they will tell you that they are valued and have been invited to roll off for Rachuig - One day they will roll off it will be a great honor when that day comes - if it does not - that is the way it is. I am definitely happy with the teams for 2003 and I am sure we could have selected 2 more ladies and 2 more guys who would have fitted into the team very nicely also - but there were only 7 positions the selectors acted on information and performances that were displayed over the roll off.

The NOrth Qld teams look good also. We will enjoy our matches - remember Rachuig is top points winner at the end of 3 days against 8 teams. (I agree with comments above - I loved the Peterson Points system.)
It is great that Qld has 4 representative teams in 2003 Rachuig. How good is that!

See you at the next 2004 Adult Tournament meeting and AGM.

Gail Torrens

 

[Gismo]

Just curious, but for those commenting and not putting their name to their comments, WHO ARE YOU? If you wish to criticise or make suggestions, then I would hope that you would have the guts to at least put your name to your comments and thus stand behind it.

The suggestion to have the whole team selected seems to be one that doesn't encourage any up-and-coming bowlers to send in a nomination as they likely to be overlooked. Add to that the fact that there are bowlers who cannot afford to go away to every tournament under the sun and there is a good reason that selection trials are held.

The same applies for swimming and athletics. You have to prove yourself each and every year to gain a place in the team you wish to represent. If this wasn't the case then the likes of Ian Thorpe, would not have been around as early as he was. Why? - because he would have been an unknown and not selected. Makes you wonder doesn't it?

It may not seem to be a perfect system but then what ever is. I may not agree with selections that are made from time to time, but then I am not the one choosing the final two places for the team. All you can hope is that the selectors have made the right choices.

As for coaches not being needed, I am left wondering why this would be so. How many of us can honestly say that we have never been coached from day one to now. How many of us can say that we have never sort advice from others as to where we are going wrong?

Anyway I feel that the team representing South Queensland will acquit themselves well at the Rachuig tournament and wish them the best of luck.

Scott Lutvey

 

[Levithian]

As for coaches not being needed, I am left wondering why this would be so. How many of us can honestly say that we have never been coached from day one to now. How many of us can say that we have never sort advice from others as to where we are going wrong?

I think that was george's whole point, bowlers of this calibre should be able to seek out their team mates when they are in need of alittle analysis on why everything is going to hell. Some people just dont see a point in having your coach there on the day, iam of the standpoint that if it is something that you benefit from, then why the hell not?. Gail brought up something i was thinking of earlier in the week, the people we dont hear much about (ie the managers, commitees, representatives, selectors, the works) really put their time and effort in. I would like to think that as bowlers we are given every chance to improve and develop our sport of bowling at every level. I dont know how the people organising such events would feel, but i cant see why they wouldnt welcome any bowlers input or feedback on such matters. As Gail pointed out, there is a time and a place for such critisism, it is nice to see that atleast the topic at hand was largely kept to constructive criticism only (it didnt turn into a flame fest). Perhaps if you have an opinion that you feel needs to be addressed or one that you want expressed, it might be an idea to sit in on a meeting or two (or at the very least a letter), thats what they are there for isnt it?

All things aside, teams have been picked, formats are fixed, only one thing left. Go Queensland (both areas)

 

[GeorgeF]

I didn't really want to upset the apple cart, I was just voicing my views. The selection thing you can take it how you want, most National teams in other sports are choosen the same way, your not going to leave out Lleyton Hewitt in the Davis Cup team because he has a bad weekend? Not put Harry Kewel in the soccer team because he had a bad game? The whole concept is putting the most valuable players in the team. There is a fine line between current form and experience and really thats the only line of contention when it goes to selection.

The year Ian and Robbie were chosen was crazy, I know Robbie made the allstar team but hello, 2 x Australia Reps available who have won more tournaments than most people have had hot breakfasts. Last year when Jason made the team, didn't he truly show everyone the benefits of an Australian experienced International in the team??? Take away Jason's points how many did QLD win??

I would tend to think that Rachuig bowlers are tournament experienced bowlers, I didn't see too many of the QLD team at Greenslopes on the weekend. David ran 3rd and bowled extremely well, Phil and Zane were a little up and down but it was good to see them there. All the bowlers I mentioned as tournament strong bowlers participated and did well.

Maybe a selection process similar to athletics where they have A and B qualifiers and then a roll off to decide the rest of the places. A qualifier - Current or AUS rep within the last 12 months or won a National ranked event within the last 12 months B qualifier - Won a Queensland scratch event over the past and has bowled more than 3 National events over the past 12 months. I'm not saying its THE BEST system just a suggestion.

Whilst this debate could go on and on, I will stop my discussions here. Good luck to the team, hope you bring back the trophy inboth sections!

 

[strop]

Rachuig.....premier event to some......Why is that , that there are alot of better bowler not bowling rachuig thesedays than who bowl.
Is is money.....politics......format......lack of interest???
You tell me..
Has the flare and exictment gone out of this event....maybe not for the ones who bowl. Is every state team a true representation of there best bowlers.???
Now that there are more teams bowling...eg New Zealand.....north,south ,east and west Qld.....(whatever) now bowling,
lets have nth and south Vict.???? Why the change and is it needed.
Some sports like swimming if you don't finish in the top 2 or 3 in a event at the titles you don't qualify to make the national team.......
Selection.....too much human intervention........too much politics even at the national level for as long as I can remember (over 25 years)
First 7 past the post ....much fairer system ....irespectative of who makes our team...WE SUPPORT EVERYONE WHO MAKES IT ON THE DAY!!!
Coachs......forget it at that level unless you feel you need one...and lets face it most of the coaches have never bowled at that level and received there level ???(whatever) out of a Cornflakes Packet.

As far as the Committe's who do there best , I wont knock anyone who is trying to improve this sport for the time they put, provided it is in the best interest of the bowlers.

I thought bowling need to go forward in this country.......I know for a fact if this state went to selection (S.A.) it would be a huge step backwards!!!! We have had 2 wins and at least 9 seconds over the 15 years...we can't complain...I'm sure your state has been just as successful...right!

Enjoy
Tony Stoppel

 

[Andrew S.]

If your'e looking at why more of our top bowlers don't nominate for Rachuig, surely the main reason has to be the lack of prizemoney?
Most bowlers at this level don't need to prove anything anymore and the privilege of pulling on a State shirt diminishes a little when the cost of participating becomes known.
We hear a lot of talk about the League State of Origin and the pride and all that, but there is also a fat pay cheque at the end of the night.
Most of our top performers also have running expenses like wives, families and mortgages. Bit hard to justify lashing out $1500 for a week away with Gail.
Really it's all been said before, I still can't see why a small membership levy could not be imposed. After all it is supposed to be our Premier Teams event.