the death of ten pin bowling!!!!!!

[little lefty legend]

is this going to be true on australia soon????

what are your criticisms of what is happening in the world of bowling in australia???

i know we have all been talking about tournaments, discount cards and whatever else, but what about the sport in general, are we going to crash and burn and just become a forgotten memory that we tell our kids and grankids

is there anything we can do to stop our wonderful sport that we so dearly support from halting and being no more

i would hate to think that our beloved sport shall end up as my name sugests.... with great names in all ranks ready to make there appearance into the world of proffesional and elite bowling.

so what do u say thats killing our game and what we can do to keep it alive...

 

[Easy Tiger]

so what do u say thats killing our game and what we can do to keep it alive...

1) Beer and Bowling (now an Australian Steriotype that that's what you do when you go bowling)
2) Prices
3) Lack of TV coverage
4) Lack of funding going to the right places
5) Really bad promotion of the sporting aspect of bowling (i.e. - no promotion of it)
6) Here's one to throw in the basket - lack of international competition bowling on our shores and in our premier tournaments. And that's because of:
7) Tournament prize funds/structures.

What can be done to fix it? Change every one of the above around!

 

[bfcc]

This was hidden away in a post maybe it belongs here -

Nothing aginst Adam personally, but talk of a 300 game is............yawn..........boring..............th ere is just so many bowled that it is hardly even a noteworthy subject.

I can remember when bowling a 300 was truly news, the local paper(s) and maybe even the major state papert(s) would report the accomplishment, pictures would be taken and interviews conducted. The centre itself would handsomely reward the bowler, I can remember on one occassion, the 300 bowler recieving a brand new car!!!

Seems the big challenge for todays bowlers is to shoot 900, wonder how long it is before bowling a 900 is as common as a 300, what next, 1200 series? Bowling has lost it's respect with me, it was once considered the 2nd hardest game in the world to score a perfect game, right behind golf .........now it is just a joke!!
Tenpin bowling has lost all it's integrity due to the over inflated scores which is a by product of dead easy lane conditions brought on by computer controlled lane maintenance equipment. The biggest challenge in bowling these days has more to do with the centre mechanic maintaining the lane machines.

The bowling ball has also had some major and dramatic effects on the game, making it so much easier to produce pin action, the ball doesn't even have to hit the pocket for pin action to cause all the pins to topple, bowlers can virtually buy a higher average by purchasing a ball that will create it's own momentum and enertia with very little effort on their behalf.

Accuracy and consistency which was the name of game plays only a small part in high scoring these days and the bowler has a huge margin for error, unfortunately bowling is not even considered a legitimate sport, hence it's non-inclusion in the oylmpics.
IMO lawn bowls is a much more challenging and exciting game than tenpin bowling................cheaper too!!

My comments may upset the odd person or 2, however, they are based on my personal veiws obtained from working in the Tenpin bowling industry over a 20 year span, not to mention 12 years bowling in a social league.

Tenpin Bowling as a legitimate sport................RIP

not my words but i think the person who posted this has some good points!!!

 

[Tim Pin]

Ive made a return to the sport after a fourteen years abscense to find a very different sport. Reactive balls, synthetic lanes and designed oil paterns all very new to me. Back at the age of 13-18 I was considered a prodigy with a 195 league average. But it's not a shine on what is done these days. Golf encounted the same problem when the new drivers were introducted, they would get on the green in one or two each hole because of the extra distance they could achieve. The sport has been made too easy and your starting to see mixed oil conditions and new head to head formats making there way into the sport which will help. Ive noticed watching the scores for juniors esp. when going away from their own centre will struggle with a different condition. I saw one guy had an entry average of 200 and shot a 154 for the tournament and didnt shoot a 200 the whole tournament. Now because that guy hasnt had experience on different conditions he may be disappointed and leave the sport because of embarassement. It's up to the coaches and centres to encourage different conditions to help these bowlers cope outside their centre. One thing I have noticed on my return is most of the champions today were from my day and I could attribute that to experience with changing lane conditions. But I'm only 33 years old so I not talking that long ago really. It's all changing too quickly and thats dangerous.

Tim

 

[krdavis]

Does it really matter the fact that scores are increasing - Every sport in existence is improving - faster running assisted by better shoes, wind resistant suites - swimming, faster by better training, faster one piece suits, Motor racing (yes it is classified as a sport). This is why world records are broken in every sport each year - because of improved training, equipment, conditions. Now why is bowling any different ? - would it not be a worry if given the myriad of available balls, shoes, gloves, lane surfaces, oil types and layouts we have and the scores were still the same as they were 20 years ago ? - It's true that the conditions for tourns should be equal from squad to squad, from lane to lane to create a level and fare playing field. Should it matter if you shoot a 200 avg in one comp, and 220 in another as long as the field have moved accordingly. ??. (unlike one very recent toun, but that’s another story and another lesson learned)...

The long and short of it is high scores are great, kinda like the cricket and the 20/20 format - it's much better watching a big score unfold than a tight low one. If we shot a 190 average 10 years ago, and today we also shoot at 190 average - has our skill improved, or declined ? I think the latter....

Remember the golden rule - he (or she), who has more equipment wins ! so improve your average - buy a couple of more balls ! - I have a xxxcel for sale ??

 

[Tim Pin]

Yeah good point but we have a maximum score unlike most of the sports you mentioned. The sport will loose it's appeal when we all have 280 averages wouldnt you agree. The front line sports of today have no maximums. No records to break here. I think lane conditions should be changed from time to time to create variety. Supercars for instance were dominated by holdens so changes were made to make the cars more equal. See other sports do have the same problems as us in a different way. Sometimes changes must be made to combat the possiblity of the sport dying. Cricket have the third umpire, introduced to help in the poor decision making in the past. Traction control in supercars in banded because it's give an unfair advantage, yes its makes the cars perform better and faster but it's not good for the sport. So faster and better isnt always the answer especially in a sport where a maximum score is attainable.

 

[mongoliantreesloth]

A simple way to stop the high scores and 300's would be to have all the frames in the same format as the tenth - i.e. a third delivery only if you happen to get a strike or a spare, and your third delivery wouldn't carry through to the next frame's score.
To score a maximum would mean bowling 30 consecutive strikes. Could it be done I wonder.

 

[MiSs HoT pAnTs]

Ive made a return to the sport after a fourteen years abscense to find a very different sport. Reactive balls, synthetic lanes and designed oil paterns all very new to me...The sport has been made too easy and your starting to see mixed oil conditions and new head to head formats making there way into the sport which will help. Ive noticed watching the scores for juniors esp. when going away from their own centre will struggle with a different condition.

I have heard many people complain over the last few years about how "easy" the sport is becoming due to the increase of technology being introduced to Bowling. I have seen many 300's being posted day to day on this site in order of congratulations to the bowlers and have seen people constantly interrupting these topics in order to have a bag out on how easy the sport is becoming, (which is extremely rude in itself because the topic was started in an attempt to congratulate a bowler on a job well done), but is also a ridiculous conclusion about the sport of Ten Pin Bowling.

The scores over the years have become higher and higher and as much as people would like to say that its because lane conditions are too easy or because the amount of technology coming in, i believe it is simply due to the amount of hard work bowlers put into thier game these days. I am not saying that things havent changed to help bowlers out over the years, but i am saying that as much people would like to say that the sport is "going to hell" because it is too easy they are sorely mistaken. This sport demands alot out of bowlers to be able to score the perfect game. And to those who have had more than one then all the more power to them and congratulations. This sport is by no means easy.

Getting back to the original topic about things that could improve the sport would be getting rid of those people that like to talk crap about the sport and put it down because it is so "easy". I dont believe that this kind of attitude is helping the sport any.

Just my two cents.

 

[rychenroller]

The scores over the years have become higher and higher and as much as people would like to say that its because lane conditions are too easy or because the amount of technology coming in, i believe it is simply due to the amount of hard work bowlers put into thier game these days.to them and congratulations.

It would be nice to believe that wouldnt it, maybe if the amount of 300 games, 800 series and so on had not increased exponentially over the last 15 years (funnily enough to coincide with the release of reactive balls). To truly appreciate what influence they have had on scoring, you only have to go back to where people had things like blue hammers, black phantoms in their bags at a tourney, then 3 months later they had 4 excaliburs, 2 polished with different drillings, maybe one at 1200 grit and one at 400 grit. This happened because people realized what a ridiculous difference reactive balls made when the arrived on the scene. Lane conditions and the ease of setting them up have only compounded the situation. How do you explain a 160 average bowler for 20 years suddenly become a 180 average bowler overnight and then a 200 average bowler 2 years later? Generous conditions, overpowered balls with massive flare potential, better technology in lane surface creating ultra consistent, no differing condition. Like regional events on the US pga tour where the scoring is so easy, guys just play darts and shoot 25 under for a tournament...without regulation in bowling, theres no reason a centre cant set up an 8:1 crown and see the scoring go through the roof.

All this does is misrepresent the sport and inflate a bowlers average to ridiculous proportions. As was said above, a guy with a 200 entering average goes to a centre with a tough conditions and shoots 154's.Theres no consistency. At the very least scoring needs to be consistenly easy or consistently tough. Just consistent....people will just walk away from the sport otherwise and we will really see the death of tenpin bowling.

 

[krdavis]

I have heard many people complain over the last few years about how "easy" the sport is becoming due to the increase of technology being introduced to Bowling. I have seen many 300's being posted day to day on this site in order of congratulations to the bowlers and have seen people constantly interrupting these topics in order to have a bag out on how easy the sport is becoming, (which is extremely rude in itself because the topic was started in an attempt to congratulate a bowler on a job well done), but is also a ridiculous conclusion about the sport of Ten Pin Bowling.
The scores over the years have become higher and higher and as much as people would like to say that its because lane conditions are too easy or because the amount of technology coming in, i believe it is simply due to the amount of hard work bowlers put into thier game these days. I am not saying that things havent changed to help bowlers out over the years, but i am saying that as much people would like to say that the sport is "going to hell" because it is too easy they are sorely mistaken. This sport demands alot out of bowlers to be able to score the perfect game. And to those who have had more than one then all the more power to them and congratulations. This sport is by no means easy.
Getting back to the original topic about things that could improve the sport would be getting rid of those people that like to talk crap about the sport and put it down because it is so "easy". I dont believe that this kind of attitude is helping the sport any.
Just my two cents.

Good point - I agree. Bowling is not easy, I know I put in at least 50 games a week in my training. If I improve and reach the goals I have set myself, I would attribute it to the hard work and dedication I am putting in now!...

Maybe also, the high number of 300 games can be related to increased number of people who take the sport seriously...

hmmm - I think a need another new ball !

 

[piequat]

Yeah good point but we have a maximum score unlike most of the sports you mentioned. The sport will loose it's appeal when we all have 280 averages wouldnt you agree. The front line sports of today have no maximums. No records to break here. I think lane conditions should be changed from time to time to create variety. Supercars for instance were dominated by holdens so changes were made to make the cars more equal. See other sports do have the same problems as us in a different way. Sometimes changes must be made to combat the possiblity of the sport dying. Cricket have the third umpire, introduced to help in the poor decision making in the past. Traction control in supercars in banded because it's give an unfair advantage, yes its makes the cars perform better and faster but it's not good for the sport. So faster and better isnt always the answer especially in a sport where a maximum score is attainable.

well said. the governing body of tenpin (i have nfi what that is) needs to work on something similar as what the FIA does with Formula 1. The teams with the most money invariably win, and it got to a ridiculous stage where ferrari dominated about 5 years in a row and people stopped watching. Furthermore, the gap between the first and last teams kept increasing as technology advanced, times were getting ridiculously quick and it became boring to watch. Though they put changes in place to try and restrict lap times (tyres, engine size, aerodynamics) and give a more level playing field (by restricting testing times per year) which has made a massive difference. There were so many awesome races last season and a lot more public interest.

Perhaps bowling could do something similar by maybe putting harsher restrictions on what goes into a ball, or banning reactive balls, and changing lane conditions in tournaments constantly to really test the bowler.

I would say that it a huge problem with lane conditions pretty much being constant for any given centre, lots of bowlers would have high league averages because of it.

Also, as has been already said, they definitely need to get some marketing out there. Obvoiusly it is a major financial issue, but there is little or no TV coverage, or advertising... I wouldn't have a clue in the world who the best bowlers in the world, let alone the country, or state are. You can't expect the sport to go anywhere just by word of mouth. And correct me if I'm wrong, but from what I can see from bowling 1 year in a fairly competitive league is that there appears to be an elitist attitude amongst some (not all) of the better bowlers. Unless you have been bowling for a while or have an avg that they perceive as worthy, you will barely hear a word out of them... It does make it hard to want to keep playing the sport, I know it deterred one person I know who quit playing after about 2 months because of that reason.

Please excuse me if any of that did not make sense or offended anyone, I am new to the sport (1 year), but I love it and would love to see it become a great sport.

Cheers,

Steve.

 

[little lefty legend]

the answer is not to ban reactives, i mean lets face it, who dosent like watching a good bowler absolutely revv a reactive coast to coast!!!

give us harder oil conditions, challenge us to use our brains when we bowl,
have to think where to line up, what target, speed, rotation the works

and yes more tv coverage is needed the only time i have seen bowling is on fox sports tuesdays at midday, lets face it, no kids are there to watch therefore no interest is there and no more bowlers.

 

[Easy Tiger]

Perhaps bowling could do something similar by maybe putting harsher restrictions on what goes into a ball, or banning reactive balls.

I still do not see how going backwards can help the sport. Banning reactive balls would be a good way to destroy a few ball companies, which would in turn destroy a large part of what is left of sponsoring and keeping major tournaments going.

Not to mention the amount of people that would leave the sport because of that. There are not too many people out there that can score well enough with a plastic to be competitive. You might get some "scoring credibility" back, but at what cost?

I agree with Cassy. The problem that has the real potential to kill this sport in this country is negativity. I know that everyone is expressing their own opinions in an effort to solve "the problem" (and that's fine of course), but maybe things would change with some more positive approaches. Maybe this whole issue of "easy scoring" should be dropped for a while, that in itself might help. It seems like this issue gets freshly (or not so freshly) raised on this site on average about once a month.. basically as soon as someone shoots a 300 who'se name isn't George, Belmo or Trots questions are asked about how easy the game is becoming.

Ten Pin Bowling IS NOT DEAD. It just needs a revival in this country.

 

[Brunswick Tech]

I can remember when we had 4 man teams (ladies) leagues right across the house, first league bowled at 9 a.m and a full house second league bowling at 11.30 a.m followed by a school or senior league and then junior leagues after school hours.

Many people blamed the economic situation on dwindling ladies leagues, no longer can the lower to middle class famlies afford to bowl without a second income, I know a lot of ladies who did bowl have now returned to the work force to make ends meet.

Traditionally league bowlers come from these lower to middle class societies the upper class may bowl socially on occassions but rarely does tenpin bowling appeal to these people.

Cosmic bowling and bumpa bowling, I believe also had a negative effect on league bowlers, no longer did the general public consider tenpin bowling as a legitimate sport but regarded it as an occassional entertainment outlet.

I also believe that the majority of bowling centres now have bars serving alcohol in Australia, many people will disagree with me but I also believe this has had a negative effect on how bowling centres are percieved by the general public

Should our league bowlers be seen drinking before, during and after competing in competition sport? Can somebody show me another sport where its quite acceptable to be drinking alcohol during competition. I know people are going to say alcohol is available at most sporting venues but have you ever seen a sportman at half time coming off the field to have a beer? Do tennis players have a few beers between sets?

If your going to promote tenpin bowling as a sport, its a conflict of interest to also serve alcohol as this will influence the parents of our future bowlers to regard tenpin bowling as a less than attractive sport for their children to participate in.

And finally I suspect the biggest problem facing the tenpin bowling industry is the evidence of social disengagement, that the consumers may be losing their desire and ability to affilate with others, their inclination to join social organisations and participate in group activities, and their willinglness to trust one another has dramatically declined over the past decade.

Tenpin bowling has been on the decline in Australia for quite some time, you can quote government statistics all you like, but it's a known fact amongst proprieters that the lineage has decreased considerably over the last 30 years, whilist the overheads of maintaining a centre have eithier increased or remained at the very least, constant.
Bowling centres were veiwed as the top of the range business investments and in the tenpin "heyday" were returning up to 42% annually.

There are several other factors which I believe have affected tenpin bowling, however I'm hesistant to post my opinions on the subject due to the threat of being abused by bowlers who eithier won't or can't discuss the subject without name calling and insulting words............

 

[Easy Tiger]

Should our league bowlers be seen drinking before, during and after competing in competition sport? Can somebody show me another sport where its quite acceptable to be drinking alcohol during competition. I know people are going to say alcohol is available at most sporting venues but have you ever seen a sportman at half time coming off the field to have a beer? Do tennis players have a few beers between sets?

I know it happens, but I thought that when you became TBA affilliated (either as a league or as a member), that you agreed to abide by the AIS Anti-Doping Policy. As far as I am aware, this policy includes a ban on alcohol during competition - including before and during. Correct me if I am wrong, but is alcohol not a relaxant?

Anyway, the point is no, it should not be allowed at any time before or during a session of play. Perhaps the AIS needs to get tougher on their policies! (as much as their funding allows, of course).

 

[Brunswick Tech]

The chances of the governing authorities ever banning reactive balls has 2 chances, buckleys and none!! Unfortunately the bowling ball manufactures have the governing authorities in their back pocket, alongside their WALLET!!

I like to see a good bowler throw a ball from coast to coast and smash the pocket too, but this can be done with a pancake weight, polyester ball, you don't need a reactive ball, bowling with a reactive ball just makes it easier to acclomplish.

Good call, Tiger.................In life, never spend more than 10% of your time on the problem but rather devote 90% of your time towards the solution.

But first we have to define exactly what the problem is? remember..........it's easier to guide a ship that has set sail rather than one that sits at anchor!!

Where there is no vision, the people perish................Proverbs, 29:18

Success truly is the result of good judgement. Good judgement is the result of experience, and experience is often the result of bad judgement!!

When forming my thoughts, opinions and ideas I have taken into consideration not only the bowling scene in Australia, but the industry or sport on a worldwide basis.

 

[Brunswick Tech]

Tiger, I honestly don't know what rules and regulations govern the league bowler in Australia, however, I do believe that you would struggle to convince proprieters that they shouldn't be selling alcohol to league bowlers during competition league play.

Do you know what the mark-up on a alcoholic drink sold at a bowling centre is? selling alcohol is quite profitable!!, and unfortunately quite popular.
As a % of total revenue, you would be surprised how much money/income is generated by the average centre.

 

[piequat]

Well i'd have to say the one thing that sticks out for me is media coverage, or lack thereof.

 

[GrandLeo]

1) Beer and Bowling (now an Australian Steriotype that that's what you do when you go bowling)
2) Prices
3) Lack of TV coverage
4) Lack of funding going to the right places
5) Really bad promotion of the sporting aspect of bowling (i.e. - no promotion of it)
6) Here's one to throw in the basket - lack of international competition bowling on our shores and in our premier tournaments. And that's because of:
7) Tournament prize funds/structures.
What can be done to fix it? Change every one of the above around!

How about putting in a submission for a tournament with better prize funds/structures. Make use of a funding proposal.
...
http://www.totalbowling.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=9472
...
Someone said " never spend more than 10% of your time on the problem but rather devote 90% of your time towards the solution."
Devote your time make a submission.

on a side note: I do not believe the sport is dying, I think attitudes are dying and taking the sport with them!
Cheer up, enjoy the sport and the sport will also be happy.

 

[GrandLeo]

Well i'd have to say the one thing that sticks out for me is media coverage, or lack thereof.

I agree! any sugestions?? How is this predicament reversed??