Should locals get an advantage for National events?

[GeorgeF]

Do you think it is fair that local bowlers get to bowl on a tournament pattern prior to the event?

I think it is, because most of the time each state hosts just 1 big event per year. Subsquently, most of the entries are made up of local bowlers. The tournament conditions are different to normal league play so why not reward your locals for entering by letting them practise. Allow your locals to adapt to 'new' conditions and encourage them to bowl their best. Not allowing them to bowl could result in them not supporting the event the following year due to their poor performance on the 'tougher' tournament condition.

Call me crazy, I have a bit of state pride and would always want a Queenslander to win in Queensland, I'm sure NSW and Vics feel the same way. I know the Melbourne Cup condition is down for practise and those local guys can get lined up which I feel is a great advantage.

It's a shame about K&K but maybe for the future locals can practise on the condition at least 1 week prior. Whats your thoughts?

 

[Hammer]

I think its a form of cheating. Everyone should have the same advantage as the next. Arnt they trying to regulate Bowling balls to see skill, no ball choice. Well giveing half the field and advantage is not showing skill, its saying we will handicapp outer staters. Just my opinion. Show up bowl, and the person who bowls better on that weekend is Champion.

 

[nomad]

George I totally agree with you. I am not your 200 average bowler but I bowl most tournaments. You could say I am one of those bowlers who make the numbers up, but I would of liked to of practiced on the Tournament Condition. However this arrangement was made between TBA and AMF. And I am only one of alot of disappointed bowlers.
Kim Suna

 

[farma]

In all sports there is a home field advantage, I can't see why this shouldn't extend to bowling, and the oil pattern for tournaments. In league or rugby the home team always has an advantage when if comes to goal kicking (unless you are the Warriors) because that teams kicker has practised for hours on that particular ground.

That said I believe if the centre is laying out the tournament pattern prior to a ranked event then it would be appropriate to ensure that everyone had access to the pattern for the same period. Whether having access to the pattern and having it laid down in your home centre is an advantage could be a whole another topic, because whilst there is potentially some benefit it can be a major disadvantage as well, because patterns can play completely differently from centre to centre.

 

[bm2]

Kimberlie,

You can count me in on that too......I don't mind "making up the numbers" and giving a donation: I am happy if I bowl average in these events, the experience gained from each tournament entered is, to me, invaluable. I like the idea of being able to have a practise on the condition for the simple reason of getting an idea of what reaction my shot has so as not to embarrass myself too greatly when the real tournament starts! It is one thing to bowl and score well during league, but another thing entirely when the more difficult patterns are laid down, especially when the field is a class one.

Why bowl in these tournies at all then????? If you don't put yourself in the postion, then you cannot learn from it - there are a few bowlers out there who happily score over the card in their leagues, but never venture outside their comfort zone just in case they really aren't as good as they think they are.

Top class bowlers find their feet very quickly on these patterns, they have the refined skills and the TALENT to be able to win where an average Joe like myself hasn't.......which is why the locals who are making up the numbers should be given (where at all possible) a taste of what to expect. This is not cheating.

Still, KnK is again shaping up to be a great event, and we are looking forward to it as it gets closer. Perhaps we'll see each other at Kedron on Wednesday for practise!!!

Broni

 

[Shayne Melton]

I believe the pattern should be available for quite a while before the event. You wouldn't say to Tiger woods before the U.S. Open "The date of the event is this day, but we won't let you know which course it is until the day".
I know this is not quite what George means, but I don't understand the secrecies about oil patterns. Most of the people that are serious about travelling for national events have the facilities available to them to lay the pattern before they travel to the event. Where is the disadvantage to announcing the pattern one month prior to the event? The problem is that when the pattern is announced and people get out there and bowl on it for days and days a few lazy people can't get of there bums to practice the condition whine and moan that those people have an unfair advantage.
From previous experience in motor racing. The person who worked the hardest and spent the most time on the track testing and fine tuning would be on the pace come race day.
In this day and age of high technology bowling equipment and the large number of variations of drilling lay outs and surfaces. Wouldn't it be easier for the person who needs to fly to an event to have some idea of what they need to bowl with? Excess baggage is an issue with some airlines and to have your equipment selected and ready is an advantage in it's self.
No mater what happens your top bowlers are going to be at the pointy end of the field more times then not. By having the patterns made public knowledge your harder working bowlers are most probably going to find it easier come tournament day.
But in saying all of this we must remember that you can lay the pattern for days and days and bowl until you can't walk. You are never going to know exacly how the condition will break down over the 8 to 12 games that you're bowling.
So what is the problem with knowing what you will be competing on?

 

[Ice]

I don't think the pattern should be laid before the event at all. I think make the pattern known to all entries for them to look at, seek the advice of a coach about, but I don't think it should be made available for locals to pracitise on. The more experienced bowlers will have a fair idea of what equipment to take just by looking at the pattern so the excess baggage reason doesn't really apply. Due to the time constraints of work committments, family responsibilities or finances, lets be realistic almost everybody faces one or perhaps all of the above constraints, it is a definate advantage to local bowlers. I said this regarding a tournament out of town where the pattern was laid for practise on a day, I believe it was a week before the event, now tell me who can arrive a week before from out of town??? And I will say it regarding a tournament where I am one of the locals, I don't think it is right. I think bowling in a home centre and having not had to travel, and be out of your routine and environment is enough of an advantage without being able to practise on the condition as well.

 

[Ice]

In saying that though unless everyone is going to stop the pracitise of laying the condition early I say go for it LOL

 

[Cam S]

Kimberlie,
You can count me in on that too......I don't mind "making up the numbers" and giving a donation: I am happy if I bowl average in these events, the experience gained from each tournament entered is, to me, invaluable. I like the idea of being able to have a practise on the condition for the simple reason of getting an idea of what reaction my shot has so as not to embarrass myself too greatly when the real tournament starts! It is one thing to bowl and score well during league, but another thing entirely when the more difficult patterns are laid down, especially when the field is a class one.
Why bowl in these tournies at all then????? If you don't put yourself in the postion, then you cannot learn from it - there are a few bowlers out there who happily score over the card in their leagues, but never venture outside their comfort zone just in case they really aren't as good as they think they are.
Top class bowlers find their feet very quickly on these patterns, they have the refined skills and the TALENT to be able to win where an average Joe like myself hasn't.......which is why the locals who are making up the numbers should be given (where at all possible) a taste of what to expect. This is not cheating.
Still, KnK is again shaping up to be a great event, and we are looking forward to it as it gets closer. Perhaps we'll see each other at Kedron on Wednesday for practise!!!
Broni

great post
as another person who will be just making up the numbers i couldnt agree more.

 

[DIECAST NUT]

I think it shouldn't matter if locals have the advantage or not, you still have to bowl that condition, I think is good for the state because if you have first time bowlers entering the tourniment, it will give them confidence that they will do well they more then likey not make the cut, but have the confidence to come back next year.

You can release the oil pattern, because the pattern will play differently from center to center due to center size, air conditioning, and outside atmosphere.

And it gives poeple and Idea on balls they my need.I would rather have our bowlers bowl well, because they will refect quality of the tourniment and it will show non bowlers that the sport is a competitive sport and my want to join a league.

Therefore increasing the sports public profile

 

[Jase]

Is it cheating? NO!

The only problem I have is that conditions shouldn’t be available to just anyone. The conditions shouldn't be advertised on any sites or passed around to just anyone who wants to get there hands on it. In doing this, those that are advantaged are the ones who are in good with center managers, head techs and the likes. I know of people practicing on the Melbourne Cup pattern already.

Is that fair? NO!

I also know that people were practicing on the Australian Open pattern for a while before the event. How can this be a level playing field!

Yes different centers play differently, air cons make a difference and it will brake down differently but at the end of the day these people get an insight into the conditions that are being laid down.

What I am getting at is yes lay the pattern in the center up to a week before the event and give the locals a chance to have a throw on it at different times of that week, but also lay it the day before an event to give the interstaters a chance to fine tune surfaces at the last minute, but bear in mind this also changes the fact that if some of the local fringe bowlers who cant find a shot, may decided to pull out of the event and the numbers will drop off thinking they cant be competitive.

I vote for yes lay the condition only in the centre that the tournament is held in, and no one but that centre manager, the tech laying the pattern and TBA should have the pattern. Maybe the day before the event the graphs should be released to the public then and only then.

Just my view!!

 

[tonx]

Why should those that want to put in the hard yards be penalised?

I'm someone that gets to practise on quite a few shots before events. Because I spend hours and hours practising on the pattern, should I not be rewarded appropriately? Is this new age of bowling as much about ball selection, preparation, and adjusting lines to play on the given pattern?

The centre I train at provides a facility for specific pattern practise at a great rate, yet not everyone comes down and practises on it. WHY? There are centres like this all over Victoria. Is it wrong for me (Working my ass off before an event) to know what im doing once I get on the pattern, compared to a once a week House shot bowler? I think not. If others want this advantage, they will travel to one of these centres (i know of many that travel up to 3 hours to get to this centre) do the hard yards, and maximise their chances on the given day.

Does a golfer not get to practise on a course before the main event if he chooses? Motorsport is another example.

3-1 and sport shot pattern practise has helped me improve my 'tournament' game. I get to feel more competitive during competition, and am prepared to travel interstate to compete. Maybe others practising on these patterns may feel the same, and also give interstate a shot? Moving forward, I believe everyone SHOULD have access to the pattern, and have the choice whether or not they want to better their game. Not just local's.

NO success comes without damn hard work. If there are any Vic bowlers out there wanting to take their tournament game to the next level, but are unsure of where these centres are, feel free to shoot me a pm.

My opinion

 

[rychenroller]

Doesnt matter.

The best will still win the tournament. Its like the age old question of "do we make the condition tougher?" Wont matter, the best will still win.

 

[Jez]

Last last post has said it all..the best bowler will still always win on the weekend.

Dont really know where i sit about laying the pattern out for the local as it has its pros and cons. Sure advertise the pattern so the bowlers can have a rough idea on what it SHOULD play like...but everyones knows every house is different.

I think part of the home ground advantage it the ability to get to the tournament with the air travel, local supporters etc....lets face it..that is the main advantage in others sports. The home teams dont have to travel and have the supporters behind them.

That i said..i will sit on the fence with this one

Good to see my Friend George has started another post which has created interest !

 

[Hammer]

I would of thought if you wanted to give the locals an advantage, why not put the house pattern down, just a bit more oil. I know the ranked tornaments have to be 3to 1 just a thought though.

 

[mongoliantreesloth]

The only problem I have is that conditions shouldn’t be available to just anyone. The conditions shouldn't be advertised on any sites or passed around to just anyone who wants to get there hands on it.

I don't know if I've got a say in this as I'm not a tournament bowler, however as an aside to the main pont of this thread I wouldn't mind seeing different lane conditions once in a while, and I suspect many others would as well.

Perhaps if bowling centres advertised the fact that the lanes were prepared "tournament style" it might attract more people in just to try them out as they maybe wouldn't ever get a go otherwise.

It may only interest social league bowlers such as myself, however if my local alley advertised that the lanes were "prepared to the specifications of the forthcoming <name of tournament>" I'd certainly be in for a few games.

 

[granat]

I would have thought that in order to truly lay down the advertised pattern you would have to start putting it down at least a week before the event to ensure any remnants of the old house pattern are gone. Even with a Kegel I doubt that it's possible to completely lay down one pattern, wash it off and put down another without some compromise in condition. Anyone who has bowled league the week after a ranked tournament has been bowled will have noticed the house shot is different.
Nothing wong with a bit of home ground advantage and also a good opportunity for "tournament wannabees" like myself to test themselves against a National Event pattern
Graeme

 

[tonx]

Doesnt matter.
The best will still win the tournament.

Firstly, I will state " THIS IS NOT A SLANDER ATTEMPT"

Now thats out of the way...

This may have been the case in years gone by. Lane pattern and topography have become more important in todays game than ever before. Certain styles match up better to certain conditions. Would you expect Belmo to win against a 190 average straight bowler if there was 0 units of oil anywhere on the lane?

Perhaps the statement should read:

"The best player FOR THE PATTERN will win the tournament"

regards...

 

[melboleo]

Hey Tonx,

Sorry buddy but I will disagree with you on this one. And I do this with the utmist respect of your bowling talents...

You can practice you ass off prior to the tournament on the set pattern but who is to say that your body may not be conditioned on the day of the tournament.

What if you are not mentally conditioned on that squad? There are a lot of what if's so I truly believe that the bowler who will win the event is the best bowler who is throwing the best shot ON THE DAY.

Thats my say...

Leo

 

[krdavis]

All our Super 6 tournaments should allow more practice that 10 minutes prior to the event ! - PBA Regionals get 2 hours then the lanes are re-conditioned for the event - this gives everyone the opportunity to adjust ball surface etc. As for locals getting access to the pattern pre-event, I guess you need all the advantage you can get George !....