Rules????

Hammer

Moderator
Would anyone have the official ruling on a dead ball. On the weekend a bowler bowled a ball at the 10 pin and missed it on the left hand side. It went into the back of the pit and jumped back and took the 10 pin out.

Is this a dead ball?????
He wasn't allowed to have the spare which was fair enough Tournament directors decision, but My personal opinion or knowledge of the game thought that it's only a dead ball if it goes in the gutter. I mean if you knock a pin out of the pin deck, it's a spare, so why can't the ball be the same?

Just thought it was a good topic and one that doesn't come up that often.
 
RULE 109 PINFALL - ILLEGAL
When any of the following incidents occur the ball counts as a ball rolled, but pins knocked down will not count:
1. When pins are knocked down or displaced by a ball that leaves the lane before reaching the pins.
2. When a ball rebounds from the rear cushion.
3. When pins come in contact with the body, arms or legs of a pin setter and rebound.
4. A standing pin which falls upon removing dead wood or which is knocked down by a human pin setter or touched by
mechanical pin setting equipment will not count and must be replaced on the pin spot inscribed on the pin deck where it
originally stood before delivery of the ball.
5. Pins which are bowled off the lane, rebound and remain standing on the lane must be counted as pins standing.
6. If in delivering the ball a foul is committed, any pins knocked down by such delivery will not be counted.
7. Pins knocked down by a ball illegally delivered. Refer Rule 603, Holes.

You don't see it happen often but it does happen.
 
I remember In 99 Junior Nationals, Chris Warner and Jamie Kyriacou (don't recall the spelling, sorry mate) were competing in the Open Masters final. Jamie left a bucket, making his job tough, and then missed the spare by removing the 5-8 with the ball. The ball smoothly dropped off the back, bounced up and came neatly through the other two pins.

The result was correctly a frame of 6 2, he was given the pins he hit on the way down, and the two on the way back were not counted to his score. The ball becomes dead when it leaves the lane.
 
RULE 109 PINFALL - ILLEGAL

3. When pins come in contact with the body, arms or legs of a pin setter and rebound..

Does this include when the sweep comes down and a pin rebounds off it to knock down another pin? My understanding is that would be counted as llegal pinfall too. Is this correct?
 
No i believe that is legal pinfall. I think that rule three is a throw-back to when PEOPLE used to set pins
 
RULE 109 PINFALL - ILLEGAL
When any of the following incidents occur the ball counts as a ball rolled, but pins knocked down will not count:
1. When pins are knocked down or displaced by a ball that leaves the lane before reaching the pins.
2. When a ball rebounds from the rear cushion.
3. When pins come in contact with the body, arms or legs of a pin setter and rebound.
4. A standing pin which falls upon removing dead wood or which is knocked down by a human pin setter or touched by
mechanical pin setting equipment will not count and must be replaced on the pin spot inscribed on the pin deck where it
originally stood before delivery of the ball.
5. Pins which are bowled off the lane, rebound and remain standing on the lane must be counted as pins standing.
6. If in delivering the ball a foul is committed, any pins knocked down by such delivery will not be counted.
7. Pins knocked down by a ball illegally delivered. Refer Rule 603, Holes.
You don't see it happen often but it does happen.

Could not have said it better once a ball has left the lane ie gutter of back end it is then deemed to be a DEAD ball. Also a bowler can call a dead ball if they see that a pin is missing they must yell out dead ball before the bowl hits the pins and then is able to throw the shot again
 
Hi Luke,
Hi Natalie and Graeme,
My understanding is that pins knocked down by other pins rebounding off the sweep would be illegal pinfall....i thought it would be much in line with pins being knocked down by the pin setter. Would be interesting to get clarification from TBA on that one.

Paul T
 
Just more food for thought... you see the power bowlers out there that cause a lot of pin action. Sometimes they may leave a cold 8 pin or 9 pin, and because of the force of impact, the headpin appears to have bounced upwards into the pin setting table before coming back down vertically to trip the remaining count. Surely that must be a dead ball?
R
 
I think the principle here is that the machinery is theoretically constant ie the sweep is consistent in its delay, the machinery is in the same place for everyone, and so forth. Therefore pins bounding off infrastructure, being the same for everyone, should be fine. Why should the back curtain be treated any differently to the sweep or the walls? It shouldn't, if the ball hits any of these it's dead, but we commonly accept pins coming off particularly the walls and curtain.

My opinion anyway...
 
I think Part 1 of rule 108 covers it.

RULE 108 PINFALL - LEGAL
Every ball delivered by the player will count, unless declared a dead ball. Pins must then be re-spotted after the cause for declaring such dead ball has been removed.

1. Pins which are knocked down by another pin or pins rebounding in play from the side partition, rear cushion or sweep bar when it is at rest on the pin deck prior to sweeping dead wood are counted as pins down.

2. If when rolling at a full setup or in order to make a spare it is discovered immediately after the ball has been delivered that one or more pins are improperly set, although not missing, the ball and resulting pinfall will be counted. It is each player’s responsibility to determine if the setup is correct. He will insist that any pins incorrectly set be re-spotted before delivering his ball, otherwise he implies that the setup is satisfactory. No change in the positions of any pins which are left standing can be made after a previous delivery in order to make a spare, unless the pin setter has moved or misplaced any pin after the previous delivery and prior to the bowling of the next ball.

3. Pins that are knocked down by a fair ball and remain lying on the lane or in the gutters, or which lean so as to touch kickbacks or side partitions, are termed dead wood and counted as pins down and must be removed before the next ball is bowled.



Part 2 is interesting, essentially if you bowl it you own it.
Graeme
 
Hi Graeme,
Yeah i reckon your spot on there mate...Part 1 of rule 108 definately covers it. I am putting that one in the memory bank cause i am sure it will happen
and there is bound to be someone there that will argue about it. Nice work mate.

Paul T
 
You're right Paul... Definitely will come in handy to memorise that one.

Cheers for that Graeme!!
 
I was on the wrong side of that argument a couple of years ago. Got it locked into the memory banks now:).

Graeme
 
during my first throw, pin 7 was shifted to the left, hence any gutter ball would have spare the frame. sad to say, my second throw was a near miss / hit, do not really know did the ball hit the pin or the gutter first, but I was denied of my spare. I am still quite blur about this dead ball rule.

Anyone can enlighten me ....:surrender:
 
The rule here is easy, the ball is dead if it leaves the lane, therefore it is dead in the gutter.

The rule you need to clarify is how the challenge to deny the spare is treated. I believe in this case, the spare should stand unless either you concede it went in the gutter and returned or your opponent proves such to the boards satisfaction - score as per pinfall by default - innocent until proven guilty.
 
Chapter One of the TBA Rule Book has been re written to bring it into line with WTBA rules. Rules 108, 109, 110 and 111 define Legal and Illegal deliveries and Dead Balls. In the posts I have read here there is some confusion about those definitions. A Dead Ball does not count as a ball bowled and allows for the delivery to be re bowled, whereas an Illegal Delivery counts as a ball bowled.

RULE 108 PINFALL - LEGAL
1. A ball is legally delivered when it leaves the bowler’s possession and crosses the foul line into playing territory.
2. Every ball delivered by the player will count, unless declared a dead ball.
3. A bowling ball must be delivered entirely by manual means and will not incorporate any device either in the ball or affixed to it which detaches at time of delivery or is a moving part in the ball during delivery except that any person who has had his hand or major portion thereof amputated may use special equipment to aid in grasping and delivering the ball providing the special equipment is in lieu of the amputee’s hand.
4. Where an artificial or medical aid is necessary for grasping and delivering the ball because of any other disability of the hand or arm, permission to use the aid in accredited competition may be granted by TBA under the following conditions:
a. The aid does not incorporate a mechanical device with moving parts which would impart a force impetus to the ball.
b. A description or drawing and model of aid is furnished to TBA.
c. A doctor’s certificate describing the disability together with his recommendation that the aid should be used is furnished to TBA.
If permission is not granted, the claimant will have the right of appeal to TBA. Should permission be granted for the use of an artificial or medical aid, a special identification card (not a TBA membership card) will be issued to the applicant indicating that the aid may be used in accredited competition providing the bowler has a current membership card and the use of the aid is specifically authorised by the league or tournament management.
Permission to use the device may be withdrawn for cause.
5. Following a legal delivery, pins that are to be credited to a player, termed dead wood and to be removed before the next delivery shall include:
a. Pins which are knocked down or off the pin deck by the ball or another pin.
b. Pins which are knocked down or off the pin deck by a pin rebounding from the side partition or rear cushion.
c. Pins which are knocked down or off the pin deck by a pin rebounding from the sweep bar when it is at rest on the pin deck before sweeping dead wood from the pin deck.
d. Pins that lean and touch the kickback or side partitions,

RULE 109 PINFALL - ILLEGAL
1. When any of the following incidents occur the ball counts as a ball rolled, but pins knocked down will not count:
a. When pins are knocked down or displaced by a ball that leaves the lane before reaching the pins.
b. When a ball rebounds from the rear cushion.
c. When pins come in contact with the body, arms or legs of a pin setter and rebound.
d. A standing pin which falls upon removing dead wood.
e. A pin is knocked down by a human pin setter or touched by mechanical pin setting equipment.
f. If in delivering the ball a foul is committed.
g. A delivery is made with dead wood on the lane or in the gutter and the ball contacts such dead wood before leaving the lane surface.
h. Pins knocked down by a ball illegally delivered. Refer Rule 603, Holes.
2. If illegal pinfall occurs and the player is entitled to additional deliveries in the frame, the pin or pins illegally knocked down must be re-spotted where they originally stood.

RULE 110 DEAD BALL
1. A ball will be declared dead if any of the following occur:
a. After a delivery (and before the next delivery on the same lane), attention is immediately called to the fact that one or more pins were missing from the setup.
b. A human pin setter interferes with any standing pin before the ball reaches the pins.
c. A human pin setter removes or interferes with any downed pin before it stops rolling.
d. A player bowls on the wrong lane or out of turn or one player from each team on the pair of lanes bowls on the wrong lane. (refer Rule 113)
e. A player is physically interfered with by another player, spectator, moving object or by the pinsetter as the ball is being delivered and before the delivery is completed. In such case, the player has the option to accept the resulting pinfall or have a dead ball declared.
f. Any pin is moved or knocked down as a player delivers the ball but before the ball reaches the pins.
g. A delivered ball comes in contact with any foreign obstacle, including Bumper Rails (except in Bumper Leagues).
2. When a dead ball is called, the delivery does not count. The pins standing when the dead ball occurred must be re-spotted and the player allowed to re-bowl the delivery.

RULE 111 OTHER PIN ACTIONS
1. When rolling at a full setup it is discovered immediately after the delivery that one or more pins are improperly set, although not missing, the ball and resulting pinfall will be counted. It is each player’s responsibility to determine if the setup is correct. The player will insist that any pins incorrectly set be re-spotted before delivering his ball, otherwise the setup is deemed to be acceptable.
2. No change can be made in the position of any pins left standing after a delivery. That is, pins that are moved or misplaced by a mechanical pinsetter shall remain in the moved or misplaced position and shall not be corrected manually.
3. Pins that rebound and stand on the lane must be counted as standing pins.
4. No pins may be conceded and only those actually knocked down or moved entirely off the playing surface of the lane as a result of the legal delivery of the ball by the player may be counted.
 
Chapter One of the Rule Book has been re written to bring rules concerning Dead balls and Illegal devileries into line with WTBA Rules.
 
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