Rule query.

emmtee83

emmtee83

Member
Hi guys,

I'm wondering if this has happened at any other tournaments and if there is a rule in the TBA Rule Book that provides some clarity.

An incident that came up at SA's Rachuig trials today. At the conclusion of a game, a bowler has cleared a pin from the gutter by throwing a ball down it before the lane change occurred. The bowlers then changed lanes. The lead off bowler on the lane in question threw the first ball, which resulted in a 7-count. As the machine was in second-cycle, the sweeper cleared the deck and a new deck was setup. The scoring machine did not register a score.

My question is this: Is the 7 counted and the remaining pins setup on the second cycle, or is the frame re-bowled?

Again, this is only for my own curiosity and if there is a law in the rule book to support this either way, I'd like to know.

Thanks for your input.
 
emmtee83 said:
Hi guys,

. At the conclusion of a game, a bowler has cleared a pin from the gutter by throwing a ball down it before the lane change occurred. The bowlers then changed lanes. .
Click to expand...

I would have thought this would have been more the issue
 
I'd be dirty on the person who threw the ball in the gutter and didn't cycle the remaining ball to reset the deck. No idea about the rule but I would think the 7 count stands
 
The bowler had the intention of resetting the lane but got distracted.

The delivery indicators were not working. Out of the 5 pairs in use, only one lane's indicators were working.
 
7 should have counted, providing all there knows what pins to stand up.

I can't see what the problem is?

Tony
ex TD for ATBA SA
 
The marshals weren't 100% sure but after consulting each other, this was the eventual ruling Tony.

I was just curious to know if there was anything in the TBA rule book to either confirm or refute it.

Just another bizarre instance in a somewhat frustrating day.
 
Pins don't lie, if you knock down seven then that it!

No different if there was a pinsetter malfunction!!

You don't just say oh well I'll have my shot again!

cheers

Tony
 
Tony,

I only asked the question because I heard two different versions of the rule from the bowlers that were on the lanes at the time. I was just wondering if it was set in stone anywhere.
 
I'm pretty sure that the frame has to be re-bowled as the machine was on second cycle and therefore was not on the correct frame cycle.

It would be the same if the machine malfunctioned and reverted to second cycle to no fault of human error. The bowler would have to take the full frame again.

The bowler has to take the full frame again when bowling on the incorrect lane so it would have to be the same with a machine malfunction whether it be human error or not.

Hope this helps.
 
A bowler is still going to knock down the same amount off pins down whether the machine was on
its 1st or 2nd cycle.

Every time I have seen bowlers leave pins standing after bowling there 1st ball & the machine resets a full deck, the pins are replaced for the bowler to spare. They dont get to bowl there 1st ball again at a full deck.

If a bowler got a strike on a lane that was on its 2nd cycle. The strike doesnt register on the telescorer & the strike is always put in manually. The score counts every time.

You cant have it both ways. You cant say it counts if i get a strike but i want another crack at it because i didnt strike.

Unless the bowler is disadvantaged by pins missing or some outside influence the pinfall stands.


This isnt tennis where a lines person gets a call wrong & you replay the point.
 
CSP said:
I'm pretty sure that the frame has to be re-bowled as the machine was on second cycle and therefore was not on the correct frame cycle.

It would be the same if the machine malfunctioned and reverted to second cycle to no fault of human error. The bowler would have to take the full frame again.

The bowler has to take the full frame again when bowling on the incorrect lane so it would have to be the same with a machine malfunction whether it be human error or not.

Hope this helps.
Click to expand...
The following statement is not intended as a personal attack, rather an observation that reflects on the quality of education by past administrations...

It scares the hell out of me that a bowler with more than a decades experience at the top level in this country would allow the bowler a reset simply because the machine was incorrectly on second cycle...

The cycle of the machine is irrelevant, it's just convenient for us that it knows when to set a full deck and when to simply clear. The bowlers first ball was a seven count, their next delivery is at the remaining three pins - if that means having a technician clear some out of the way and stand the desired pins, then that's what's done. Same as a machine dropping a tenpin during the cycle, you get the correct pin(s) restood and complete the frame.

Summary: restand the required pins and complete the frame.
 
I want to know what happens to the bowler that put the ball down the lane to clear the pin
Is he penalized with a gutter ball count
 
How can we possibly have 2 pages of comments, which consist of ' opinions'?
Sure, some of the opinions are totally correct, but the matter IS NOT A MATTER OF OPINION.
If I was The person to whom such a question was referred to for a ruling during a competition, even if I knew the answer 100%, I would refer to the written rules.
It would take less than 1 minute to find rules 108 and 109, and give the correct ruling, leaving no one in doubt.
Here, you don't even need the book. Go to the TBA site.

For goodness sake, Nev , READ the first post. That shouldn't be too much to ask!!
 
emmtee83 At the conclusion of a game said:
nev,
Sorry, I'm at a loss to know how to "explain" that, specially the bit which says " at the conclusion of a game." Some things defy explaination, if they're too simple.

Like a person with normal vision, confronted with a black tile and a white one, who says he can see no difference, and asks that the difference be explained to him. Where would you start??
Click to expand...
 
jimcross said:
nev,
Sorry, I'm at a loss to know how to "explain" that, specially the bit which says " at the conclusion of a game."
Click to expand...

So what you are saying
If I bowl in a tournament and at the end of the game while waiting to change lanes I'm allowed to throw a few balls down for practice??

For Practice or to clear a pin I see no difference

I'm sure there is a penalty there somewhere of not there should be as it could be seen as a unfair advantage

Thanks for the smart **** comments it people like you with smart **** replies thats are turning people away from this forum

I was just asking
 
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