Respect?

[Murderdoll]

Well, another junior nationals has passed, and WA boys finished in 7th... not bad with the conditions I say.

I came back to league tonight, I'm pretty buggered from nationals (as was Mitch) and I throw a lousy 570+ And Mitch didnt do so well, but cut him some slack, he bowled his ass off during nationals, as did everyone else...

Now what gets me is some comments made by some of the, lets say Senior players in the league, and oh how encouraging it was to hear... (do you notice my sarcasm??)

I'll repeat myself, we were just at nationals, we bowled to the best of our ability on a very open condition, last thing we wanna do when we get back is bowl. A little rest would do a world of good.

Back to it. First off I wanna say thanks to the people tonight who did ask us how we went over east, and if we had FUN (most of you forget about the FUN part of bowling). Yes we had FUN, and we think we bowled well. To the rest who were making smart comments about mine and mitch's bowling tonight (and everyones bowling during nationals)... I think you should keep it to yourself. In all honesty, what I heard tonight was extremely DISRESPECTFUL towards not just us, but to Junior bowlers in general.

Where were the words of encouragement from the most skilled players of the game?? If your wondering... I was sick all 3 days of shield, I think I did damn well in my condition, and if you dont believe, I have a few hundred people who would back up my claim. I also reckon that this years team did extremely well, with having no experience, so they pulled together as a team and did the best that they possibly could before i managed to get back to bowling and captaining the team during the second day.

As I was saying before, the comments made by certain people, I feel were quite disgraceful, coming from people us Juniors look up to. You wonder why junior bowling in WA is going downhill, its because of stupid comments made that effect the choices made by us Junior bowlers. I feel let down by this all...

I've noticed on the other State sections words of encouragement to their juniors, but not us, we just get the snide comments. Thanks alot guys, I hope you realise you might be the death of junior bowling in WA...

Im sorry that it had to come to this, but you should think before you speak...





As for the shield team, managers and coaches, thanks very much for making my last year so great, even though I was sick, it didnt hold me back from helping you guys as much as possible. I wish you all the best of luck in your bowling, and I hope you all make the shield team for next year, and kick some ass while your at it.


oh, I also dont care if you hate me for what I've said, but the fact is that this is the awful truth, and something had to be said.

 

[Feral]

Adrian, you and your team performed more than credibly and you all should be congratulated. Great to hear that you had fun - yes, that is what we should all aim for. If you love to bowl you will always have fun.

As a junior with more than the average talent and outlook about bowling, your future in the sport is assured. Don't let the barbs you are getting affect you buddy, I know you are stronger than that. I find it very surprising that this is happening. In Queensland most of us support and encourage our juniors and youth to the max. We love to bowl with them and usually get thrashed in the process - I do anyway. I would bet that you would have noticed the SQ team having FUN, but at the same time being relaxed and focussed. Confident. Winners.

I hope senior bowlers in your area have a change of attitude toward you and Mitch (and the rest of the team) and show at least some respect and encouragement. Don't take it too much to heart Adrian, you are more than an accepted ambassador for your wonderful state. Well done buddy, you should be proud of yourself.

Cheers

Feral

 

[sandor]

respect

adrian

i was on the next pair to you guys, i saw mitch throw 5 gutter balls at full racks, using a highly polished ball that just skid and skid

i also watched you trying to hook the ball all 40 boards of the lane

if you live by the hook you also die by the hook

no wonder the bowlers started riding your backs

welcome back to earth young guns

by the way these same bowlers ride my teams back when we play them
so it's not just you they pick on, they are renouned for barracking and blowing their own trumpet

 

[Murderdoll]

Thank you Freal for your kind words on the subject, its very much appreciated.


Sandor, I know Mitch had the 5 gutter balls, and i know i was trying to crank it 40 boards, but we both new that we were coming back to Fairlanes, not bowling at Strikezone... but after bowling soid for the last week, we didnt really expect to bowl well when we came back straight away. I do understand what you are getting at, but Juniors need all the encouragment they can get, because after all, juniors are the future of our sport...

But as I said, I understand what your saying, but the comments shouldnt be said.

 

[sandor]

respect

adrian

it's a tough world out there, i hope you have learnt from all this

if you guys were that tired you should have found subs for the night

 

[BT]

Hey Adrian

I was very impressed by you and ur team, especially the courageous effort on the first day when u were sick in bed. To come out and still bowl the next to days is worth a lot. I see a big future for WA after seeing the quality of bowlers that were at Strikezone.

I remember one night i was rushed to get on the lanes cos i didnt even know i was bowling. No practice, in last years shield uniform, raising money so i could go away... DOUBLE GUTTER FIRST FRAME. the comments came. its simple, people like to cut others down who are better than them, its the only way to win for these 'types' of 'bowlers'

Dont let it get you down cos u are an awesome bowler, all of you are. I hope to see you in youth.

Braddles

 

[aok1]

Unfortunately trash talk is part of every sport, that is what seperates the good from the very good, the ones who can either give it back as good as they get or just ignore it. It happens in every sport no matter what you play, probably worse in other sports. Always remember these senior bowlers you talk of copped the same thing when they were juniors and still cop trash talk now.

And im sure you've laughed out aloud at a social bowler amongst your friends, much the same thing! Remember its all a bit of competitive fun and the best way to shut them up is to beat them!!!!


Just my two cents worth!!!!!

 

[Murderdoll]

Sandor, I've learned quite abit from all this now, and I can see why, as Brad pointed out.

I was just a tad upset with the fact that anything was said. And it wasnt just about myself, but for all 9 that went away (including tom and michael)

Anyways, you all make good points, and I will keep them in mind.

 

[Lil Sumthin, Sumthin]

:agrue: Adrian :agrue:

The answers simple, take ur bat and ball home, then take ur dolls off him and dont let him play with them no more, and remember young Tom came home 1 day later than you and rolled a 210 avg.

What they mean is that most people agreed that the conditions were very open and most people were rolling a 210-215 avg and you were only rolling a 190-195 .

I think they thought that at 18 yrs oldyou would be able to take a bit of piss taking, maby they were wrong.

 

[Lil Sumthin, Sumthin]

The best answer is no answer, so just keep bowling and rolling.

 

[Stax]

Well, well, I've been called a lot of things in my time as a bowler, however I don’t think “disrespectful” is very high on that list.
Now lets not beat around the bush here, I would state that Adrian is talking of Steve, Tom and Myself, as it was us who they played that night.
Firstly, your quote
“Well, another junior nationals has passed, and WA boys finished in 7th... not bad with the conditions I say.”
7th is not bad, not great, but OK.
“with the conditions”
From what I hear they were wide open. The SA “boy's team” averaged 209. The SQLD “girl’s team” averaged 210. With that in mind your result was only fair. How many of the WA boys team went and had a quick look at the SQLD girls team? What ball, line, speed and amount of hook are they using? My God there avarging over 225.
I’ll be fairly sure it’s a big fat zero. Not only are you there to bowl, you are there to learn. Learn by watching the bowlers who are scoring and the bowlers that can actually bowl.
I do believe that all of the WA junior team has a certain amount of talent. But in all the years I’ve watched the juniors bowl, yes about 20 or so, I’ve never seen such a bad case of the whoops when it comes to sparing. 6 strikes in a game and 4 opens will be beaten every time by the guy who can spare. Strikes are worth jack if you can’t spare. And to you Adrian and Mitchell, YOU JUST CAN’T SPARE!!!!!
So to Bianca Flanagan, who averaged 229.1, I think she might have bowled her **** off.
Your next quote
"Now what gets me is some comments made by some of the, lets say Senior players in the league, and oh how encouraging it was to hear... (do you notice my sarcasm??)"
Sorry Adrian, no sarcasm noticed. We, well I, followed the scores in the nationals as they came up, so I did not need to “congratulate” your team on their 7th place.
Your next quote
"A little rest would do a world of good."
Thanks Sandor !!
Followed by,
"I think you should keep it to yourself. In all honesty, what I heard tonight was extremely DISRESPECTFUL towards not just us, but to Junior bowlers in general."
Tell me what we should have said, and I’ll tell you whether you deserve it.
And
"If your wondering... I was sick all 3 days of shield,"
I believe you, but suck it up, get on with it, the rest of the competitors really don’t care.
And
"As I was saying before, the comments made by certain people, I feel were quite disgraceful, coming from people us Juniors look up to."
If you want to have a bitch, which you obviously do, state the facts of who said what.
And
"I’m sorry that it had to come to this, but you should think before you speak..."
Really!!

Remember this also, you are just 18 years old. At 18 years of age, this is fact, the junior nationals were held in Nottingham, England, a lovely 48 lane centre of two floors. We (the local Plymouth Junior team) bowled Five-man teams, 3 games three times, Mixed triples, 3 games, three times, Boys doubles, 3 games three times and 9 games singles. A total of 36 games. Follow this by the Junior Masters, which cut to top 48 bowlers, using pinfall from your previous 36 games, bowl 16 games cut to 12, bowl 11 games and then a stepladder.
I made it to the last 12, another 27 games. That’s 63 games all in 4 days. That did not include the best part of 20 games practice. Yet the following evening back in Plymouth I was still able to bowl my doubles and five man teams. Sure I was tired, but I was 18.
So in conclusion, the next time you get “beat up on” while bowling; remember we won 15-1, so it looks like it did the trick.
Then, when Tom, a TWO time bowler of the decade, or Stephen, a Perth Cup Winner, gives you some advice, I’d listen if I were you. When you’ve gathered in that information go and watch Western Australia’s greatest ever bowler, Mike Muir and ask yourself why he does not cover 40 boards.
As to some of the other bowlers, whom I hear also gave you a hard time, remember who they are and what they have achieved, and that they were once a junior bowler who went through the same thing as you.
A simple adage is this,
MORE SPEED, LESS HOOK, and MORE SCORE. IT’S THAT SIMPLE.
This reply contains my thoughts and I bear you nor Mitchell, or any of the junior team any malice, but learn how to spare. I don’t strike as much as you, but I average over 20 pins a game more, and 25 more than Mitchell.
Catch up that 20, it’s not that hard.
Stax

 

[TMK]

Adrian ,unless you win a t,ment, the hardest thing in bowling is coming back to home base.
Theres no prize for second in sport,so 7th doesnt rate(unless you ran 9th 2 yrs ago ,8th last yr..and your improving up the ladder each year)
You are entering the transition from junior to senior,and Tuesday nite was a preview of what lays ahead of you.
You already know that there are 3 stages in bowling...
the preparing..the execution..working on the weakness,s.
The National,s are over ,so preparation and execution,are a done thing......what did you learn and how will you face the next t,ment is all you have to work on.
Those seniors that had a go at you...you have 2 choices.
1.Let it get you down...
2.Get it to motivate you.
Take Tuesday nite,your ball was covering more boards then anyone else in the league.
Ill take a stab here and say that at this stage your mind probably thinks this is the optimum way to bowl.
Was this your strategy at the Nationals...throwing the same type of shot.
Stax makes the valid point that there were bowlers averging telephone numbers..did you link into their shot or perserved trying to cover lots of boards.
I know you can shoot straight at a spare..and i know you can cover as many boards as anyone...my envious mind /game that cant throw that many boards thinks..that with that skill you can also control shots in between...ie if some one is aveging 229..and shooting a certain line ,why didnt you imitate it.You had the capacity.
Mitchell,did throw 5 gutter balls on Tuesday nite,then spared most on the next shot.
Whats this saying...that concentration is in a "needs work" mode.
So its not hard for Senior players to fairly quickly assess why the team ran 7th.
This chokes me to say this but non of the Fubars had a go at you..its not our style not too...but your juniors..and we let you off the hook....OTHERS didnt.
Thats life in the fast lane.
Dont exspect sympathy when you ever run 7th,even 3rd only gets a nod,2nd..well you still stuffed up somewhere.
My advice to both you Adrian and Mitchell,is...dont look for excuses.
During the first 30 yrs of my bowling career...the catch cry was that you dont become a great bowler till you were over the age of 30..
Today that no longer applies..
The hard reality is that by 18 and 19 you need to around world class.
Both of you have to accept that you are not the master...the lanes are.
Learn how to throw a ball that covers 5 boards ,then 10,then 15 then 20..perfect those areas..then you can be lazy at a t,ment..and watch and wait to see who has found the shot..line up the same..and average what they,re averaging...
You should have come home from the nationals feeling really dark and dirty...not that you had fun...7th sucks..or as Stax would say "sux"
Its gotta hurt.
So much so that you really want to do something about it...and if some seniors have a go at you cop it sweet...you deserve it...you cant defend 7th.
History will tell you that not many juniors make it it seniors.
If you let nites like Tuesday nite get at you...rather then motivate you..you,ll end up on the scrap heap like thousand ,s before you.
When the going gets tough..................................................

 

[TMK]

P.S.Adrian.
As an opposition on Tuesday nite this was our comments..(between ourselves)
I just wonder if at the Nationals the thought pattern was the same..each shot that you had wasnt so much on whether you would strike or not..it was how big a split you would get when it didnt come off.
You stuffed us up when you got six in a row ,and we just kept saying to Stax the splits were around the corner.,and they came..the next 4 frames.,
My point is that there are shots that close out an opponent,and there are shots that you know are brittle.You currently have a brittle shot and that makes an opponent..senior /experienced..on guard and ready to pounce as Stax did.
Your shot is not intimidating enough...you leave that huge element of hope to the opposition.
The same applied to Mitchell,after 2 gutter balls,the advantage goes to the opponent,,..
Thats why you guys ran 7th,you are at that stage where your opponent knows they always have a chance,...great bowlers demolish the opponents confidence by the third frame.
May i just add here,that body language playes a huge part in bowling...this is an art you both have yet to develop..but then at 18..its part of the learning curve.
And that sumes it up...you are in a learning curve...
Make good.

 

[Bowling_Kid300]

I cant belive what im reading here.

This is the biggest insult i have seen on totalbowling. We went away with 6 (and i repeat SIX) new bowlers who have never even been to nationals before and we come 7th. I think that is damn rite good. But for you "senior" players, 7th is obviously not good enough. I think we did more than good enough considering our experience level and we were up against guys who average in excess of 215 everywhere they go. But for me to come back and see that you people say that 7th "sucks" has just blown me away. :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:

Because of these comments (and im sure if any other of the shield bowlers see them) you may have just killed off what interest was left in President Shield bowling in Wa. I am re-considering trying out this year and with comments in the back of my mind i am getting to the point where i probably will NOT try out. :x :x

The shield team does not deserve these comments so could you please show just a little respect and somehow congratulate us on our hard efforts? :wink:

 

[Stax]

Bowling_Kid300 I think you need to read the posts more carefully. Nobody is saying you did not do your best. I am sure that there was plenty of effort and dedication that went into your bowling. Our point is simple. Adrian wanted to have a grumble, and he did. He missed the mark. His post was about respect or lack of it, you have to earn respect. You don’t just get it because you made the team. Look at the Rachuig team. They have some members that still have to earn their respect; they don’t expect to just get it. If they come back with a win they’ll be well on their way to earning some though.
Remember everybody at some stage in their career (in this case bowling) has to start out with little or no experience. We’ve all been there. I was bagged many times for my poor sparing, so I did something about it. I learnt how to spare.
I can give you the best example of respect being achieved of the last few years. Luke Dick.
So stick with your bowling, improve yourself mentally and physically.
You HAVE what it takes, the whole junior team does!!
You are just about to take the biggest step in your bowling career: From a big fish in a small lake, to a little fish in a big lake. This step is the undoing of many a junior.

Don’t whinge, BOWL. It’s much easier.

Stax

 

[Lil Sumthin, Sumthin]

Stax, ur wasting ur time!!!

Bowler kid ur breathing what u should be spraying under ur arms. Im a junior and capable of speaking for me.

If somebody older/wiser/ more experienced is prepared to offer advice then you should just listen, u got 2 ears and one mouth and should use them in that ratio, uve been bowling for 5 minutes and dont have an opinion that anybody wants to listen to, stick to polishing your ring!!!

You bowled a 300 and thought you were something good, and think thats it, now onto Everest or maybe a swim across the Tasman, youve set your sights extremely low and you made them whats wrong with that, if you think 7th is good then boy you did good, but take into account that to most sportspeople 2nd place is first loser!!
Youve also missed a small point, the lanes were there for everybody every day, look at the statistics and see how many bowlers made there average or were over there average, then and this is the hard bit, look at the guys whos entering averages were lower than yours and finished higher than yours, thats were the problems lie, Mike Muir, Tom Kury, Stax Stevens have been there, read the book ate the t-shirt and wore the pie, they had bigger hills to climb than your gonna meet.
Do yourself a favour and pull ur head in, if your happy with 7th then thats all that matters.

 

[Feral]

Billy, a disgusting couple of posts.

Feral

 

[Murderdoll]

Ok, it wasnt as if i was trying to have a whinge for the sake of having a whinge, but I was just disappointed about what I heard. I know that to be shown respect you have to 1) Earn respect from your peers, and 2) Show respect to your peers. I didnt think it was Stax, Tom or Steve that said it, because I feel that you three are the most trusted and respected in the WA bowling community, therefore I didnt name names.

The lanes on tuesday sort of felt like I was bowling at Strikezone, so I was using my shot from nationals on tuesday. And yes, I know I like to hook it heaps, (which is now second nature in my bowling, it just happns) but my ultimate goal was to keep it in the pocket. It wasnt really working well, and my sparing had gone to shit. Fair enough... that can be taken into account.

And yes, the lanes over east were very open, i did quite well during nationals, as did everyone else in the team, but I struggled in shield, and I know I did. And yes, the girls did out average the boys by nearly 10 pins. Oh and I think only 12 or 13 people out of 139 averaged over 210 for shield, and alot of others achieving 200+ averages.

I also realised I should of reworded the topic title and parts of my post. It shouldnt have been about respect or lack there of, but more Encouragement Towards Juniors. As I said, I was disappointed at the comments, because I feel instead of trying to put us down, there should be just a little more encouragement towards the us, because as Tom said, its all part of a learning curve. I dont expect praise everytime I bowl, but I dont particulary expect put downs, or unencouraging comments. And I'm sure its the same with every single person who bowls.

And I know I've blown my first post a little out of proportion, and I apologise for that.


Anywho, I've tried to explain myself the best I can...
Adrian




By the way, Lil Sumthin, Sumthin, you are a tool, and If your gonna have a crack at someone, then at least put your name to your post.

 

[Stax]

Lil Sumthin, Sumthin, you are even further off the mark. I understand what you want to say but you will need to say it better than just being rude. Some of your post is correct, but name calling is not required.
Feral, not sure what your post refers to! “Disgusting couple of posts”????
Adrain, a good reply. I'm guessing you've settled down a bit and had time to reflect on your post and some of the answers.
There has been some criticism, but that’s good if you understand what is being said to you, take it in and us it to your benefit, use it as a growing experience, it will make you stronger.

Stax

 

[Playa]

It's all good at my centre because everyone respects me but as you can probably imagine I got a few 'negative' comments against my nationals shirt but it's all good, I'm now gonna wear it against the better teams in league and when we kick there arse I can rub it in there face.

Adrian man, don't worry about the disrespect thing, when you beat a few of the big guns then they will respect you. You can't get down on one bad night back but I'm sure that many juniors will look up to you some day and you'll know what they're going through so don't worry about it big fella. You're an awesome bowler and keep at it.



Peace
Chris