Lesson learn't

[Hammer]

On the weekend I learnt a lesson and will be very careful in the future.
I was in charge of running a tournament and most people posted their names on the forum. Well within the last 24 hrs of the tournament I had 12 people pull out, and a couple who I had to beg to come.

The lesson I have learnt is next time I put my name down for a tournament I will check to make sure I can make it, and don’t have prior commitments. Also do my very best to make it, if I said I was going to be there. I now know what it feels like to be let down, so this is a very good lesson for me.

We all know that there are always late minute emergency’s that can’t be avoided. In some cases but it would seem that there a few, that keep putting there names down but just don’t bother in showing up.

So in finish I know now how Jase feels and all other Td’s when people don’t show up, and feel that making sure of a Deposit is a good thing and a step in the right direction.
This is not aimed at anyone just an experienced I came across on the weekend.
Regards
Hammer

 

[tonx]

This should be moved to the main forum.

We had 27 people pull out of the event we ran on the weekend. Some were injured and some were overseas, but for the most part "Cant be bothered getting up on a sunday" isnt a valuable excuse. 23 out of the first event. This creates scoring template NIGHTMARES on the day.

Apart from Forcing Deposits to enter (and probably cost entries in the process) what else can we do?

A timely topic indeed Hammer! Maybe we can get some suggestions out of this thread on how to stop this in the future.

 

[Jase]

Hey guys, I learnt my lesson after one event of the circuit I run up here in QLD…I still have a couple of serial squad fillers (SSQ), thanks to those few I now have a great system in place now and this is how it works…

1. Place up a post with all the squad times…
2. Add the names to the squads as requested…
3. Ask for deposits regardless if the Squad is FULL OR NOT…
4. If someone pays a $50 deposit. I then have organised with the Centre and the manager that it’s being held at, that they EMAIL ME to let me know it’s paid and cleared…
5. Someone posting or a PM to me to say they have paid a deposit, isn’t good enough I MUST GET COMFORMATION from the CENTRE ONLY in an email…
6. I then update the squad list and that persons name is now in bold or bold for a FULL payment…

That way everyone knows the rules and I have NO WORRIES about favorites being looked after, these rules are for everyone regardless who you are…Deposits are NON Refundable unless heath issues or family illness…

If you miss out on that squad unfortunately that is there own fault and the system works well. Everyone knows the squad limits and how it works at the very first release of the tournament…We don’t wait for the squad to fill up, believe you me once deposits are paid and people see this, they start to fast track there deposits, There is no ONE WEEKS grace and nothing is done BEHIND THE SCENES…People can see what is going on right from post 1…

The bowls don’t charge a fee and they also allow direct deposits…It’s just some advice and other ways for other TD’s to run there events…and also Squad lists are ALWAYS kept up to date…

Hope that helps…

 

[mickyd213]

Hey Tonx...
Just out of interest as this is now a hypothetical situation,

I happened to work Saturday night (12hr shift) after being called in due to some one else being sick at work...If i had chosen to sleep instead of bowl, would any deposit i made be refunded, or transferred to the next event?

Cheers,
Mick

 

[tonx]

Hey Tonx...
Just out of interest as this is now a hypothetical situation,
I happened to work Saturday night (12hr shift) after being called in due to some one else being sick at work...If i had chosen to sleep instead of bowl, would any deposit i made be refunded, or transferred to the next event?
Cheers,
Mick

I suppose it would really have to come down to a case by case basis. The majority of the time those sort of happenings are looked at as out of the bowlers control, and if I was the tournament director, there would be no question that I would certainly pass on the deposit to the next event, as long as it's a once off.

If it was the same people over and over, it would become a concern. The whole idea of a deposit isn't to rob those that have last minute emergencies come up, it's to make it so things like scoring systems, lane changes and formats can be accurately prepared before the event.

The job has to work both ways, and the guys running the tournament need to be accessable to the bowlers if something comes up, but IMO its rare that the tournament committee is unable to be contacted before an event.

Jase has brought up a really good way to do it with squads, showing no "Favours for mates" like you see regularly in some other tournaments. Having recently had to set up a few tournaments myself, it brings a new appreciation to guys like Jase that UNPAID; run well done tournaments and make it look easy. Believe me when I say it isn't. Not all of us work in the industry full time...

It is a really good start up topic, and should bring to the board those that run, as well as those that bowl tournaments together, to improve the way we run tournaments in Australia overall. With the combined tournament experience that members on totalbowling have, there has to be alot of ideas that have been unheard so far to solve the issue. Cow has also posted a similar topic regarding his Sports Series with similar issues, so the problem isn't just with a couple of tournaments.

I'll ask a question to those that enter tournaments. What is bad about paying a small deposit to secure your preffered spot in a tournament?

 

[Hooligan]

Great to see people understanding what a problem they can cause, whether they are an offender or not. In my previous bowling life I had run leagues and been involved in scoring systems for tournaments, including the Wide Bay (now Total Bowling Circuit), so I like to see it when people really appreciate what Jase and the centres do for them.

Even better to see is how it is being managed and that everyone can see the order that names go on the list and how bowlers get pushed out of squads if they are slack. Isn't the Internet great!?

One thing I'd love to see for next year is the thread for entry to the tournament include bank account details for the centre that is hosting it. (Even better, BPay.....) That way when we see a tournament thread we can pay deposits straight away, all without getting off our arses. Might see more spur of the moment entrys?

Anyway, Jase watch for that confirmation email for Toowoomba, won't you mate?

 

[craig]

i have never paid a deposit in my life, and i have always fronted, i know there are many people out there that are like me

but i also know there are many people who are the opposite, in victoria we have a running joke around the bowlers about one specific person who on this website says he will bowl in every tournament that is posted, then a week out usually pulls out.

i wish there was some kind of honour system we could run, to fix this.

i see where your coming from tonx, and after the weekend, i would be disheartened about the no shows as well.

me personally, if i have to arrange a deposit, i probably wont bowl.

 

[AMFRandwick]

Hey guys,

just thought id throw in my 2c. I ran a pretty successful Skins tournie yesterday at AMF Randwick. I had 20 ppl bowl paying $100 each and paying out $100 for each skin. Now while 20 bowlers may not seem like much, for a centre who hasnt run a tournament of any kind for over 5yrs i was pretty pleased. I got deposits off all of my Randwick league bowlers and could only hope for the best when it came to ppl who had confirmed via TotalBowling. I ended up having 23 confirm a week in advance, 1 call me 4 days prior and let me know they couldnt bowl, and then 3 not turn up on the day, however managed to get a bowler just rock up on the day. I guess for a skins tournie thats pretty good but obv this is the first tournie iv run so i guess only time will tell how it goes in the future.

Joel
AMF Randwick

 

[Bowling Balls Australia]

Simple solution.

Non-refundable full payment one week before the event. That way there can be no-one complaining about prize money being reduced at the event due to the "no shows".

If people are serious about bowling the event, they will pay it.

 

[Scully]

Guys, we run an Invitational Skins Tourny down here at least monthly and everyone must pay a $20 deposit. If they don't show the prize money is still there. So far so good, everyone has always fronted or found a sub.

 

[FLOWER]

The problem as I see it, isn't for those well patronised tournaments so much as for those which attract 20-50 entries and make allowance for 2 squads ..... bowlers KNOW they need not pay a deposit as the squads will not be full. Major tourns. and popular local events need deposits for the reasons others have stated ... valid points indeed.

It is difficult enough to get bowlers off their butts to even think of bowling 'normal' tournaments and to pay a deposit as well - goodness me - effort required !!! The other problem with deposits is... what constitutes a 'valid' excuse? We see posts here all the time about pre-bowls, post bowls etc. and reasons given and either accepted/not accepted. If you refuse to refund one person and then refund another - more complaints on the forum about 'poor, poor me'.

Maybe there could be a designated person in an area eg. Sth Qld. who would be contacted by tournament organisers if bowlers did not show with no valid reason ..... then a yellow card for the first no-show, a red for second and a 'please pay deposit' thereafter. Then a 'hit list' of unreliable bowlers could be readily available to organisers to enable them to collect deposits. I don't advocate the public listing of these bowlers as education (nagging!) is a better option.

Flower

 

[Cam S]

On the weekend I learnt a lesson and will be very careful in the future.
I was in charge of running a tournament and most people posted their names on the forum. Well within the last 24 hrs of the tournament I had 12 people pull out, and a couple who I had to beg to come.
The lesson I have learnt is next time I put my name down for a tournament I will check to make sure I can make it, and don’t have prior commitments. Also do my very best to make it, if I said I was going to be there. I now know what it feels like to be let down, so this is a very good lesson for me.
We all know that there are always late minute emergency’s that can’t be avoided. In some cases but it would seem that there a few, that keep putting there names down but just don’t bother in showing up.
So in finish I know now how Jase feels and all other Td’s when people don’t show up, and feel that making sure of a Deposit is a good thing and a step in the right direction.
This is not aimed at anyone just an experienced I came across on the weekend.
Regards
Hammer

Steve i understand ure frustration i think its easily fixed by putting a non refundable deposit is the way to go.

However i dont think you help yourself when u send abusive pms to people who actually pull out of a tournament for a real reason and tried to not only pm you but personally call you.

I know from my point of view i would have loved nothing better than to bowl friday and saturday and put my name down in good faith to bowl only to be struck down all week with the flu.

 

[Hammer]

Steve i understand ure frustration i think its easily fixed by putting a non refundable deposit is the way to go.
However i dont think you help yourself when u send abusive pms to people who actually pull out of a tournament for a real reason and tried to not only pm you but personally call you.
I know from my point of view i would have loved nothing better than to bowl friday and saturday and put my name down in good faith to bowl only to be struck down all week with the flu.

Abusive, well I did hold back a little. You see this isn't the first one you pulled out on me either Cam. Mate with your job i doubt you could make alot of tournaments because when I ask you, it's always I have to work, so........
Anyway I didnt want this to get into an argument buddy.

 

[Kellie]

Cut it out, I mean you have people that show up and people that don't sending them priv messages with abuse is stupid, do you honestly think they are going to support anything you run in the future. People pulling out of tournaments is a fact of life.

Aren't we trying to move this sport forward, cut the **** out and lets do it.