Is a strike a strike and a spare a spare?
- Thread starter *'TOPHER*
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Brett Hall
New Member
When I was bowling competitively, I was definately concerned about how I was throwing my ball. I wouldnt complain on a brooky strike, but I wouldnt be totally satisfied neither.
Nowadays though, as a once a week semi-social bowler, if they all fall down, they all fall down.
Nowadays though, as a once a week semi-social bowler, if they all fall down, they all fall down.
i think you take them no matter what way they come. if you think about it how many times have you but in a great ball and been left with crap, to me i would rather get a real strike or spare but if i throw a bad ball and get a good result that just makes up for some of the bad luck, and when you look at the score it still says strike or spare.
2
23 T FORD
Well for me, if i went brooklyn and struck, of course i wouldn't knock it back. but still i would rather leave pins standing which would make me pay for my mistake!!! but hey thats me.
BrenH
New Member
The lucky ones are just a part of the game.
In my mind they make up for all the good shots that leave things like 7-10's.
At the same time though you still have to sit back and work out why the shot went bad in the first place and try something to get yourself back into a good rythym.
In my mind they make up for all the good shots that leave things like 7-10's.
At the same time though you still have to sit back and work out why the shot went bad in the first place and try something to get yourself back into a good rythym.
Toshio
Videogame Master!
A Strike's a Strike and a Spare's a Spare.
You know you get those people who say:
"I'll take that!" when they get a bad strike, well guess what, you HAVE to take it. You can't say:
"Oh that was a bad ball can I take that shot again?"
So a Strike IS a Strike and a Spare IS a spare.
Toshio
You know you get those people who say:
"I'll take that!" when they get a bad strike, well guess what, you HAVE to take it. You can't say:
"Oh that was a bad ball can I take that shot again?"
So a Strike IS a Strike and a Spare IS a spare.
Toshio
~Mrs STORM~
Revless Wonder...
If you yell "OVERS!" before the ball rolls over the arrows, you get to have that shot again, unless of course you strike. The strike must be pocket though.
K
Killswitch Engage
Bowling is the only accuracy based sport I know of, where you can miss your target (quite substantially in some cases), and still be fully rewarded.
I mean imagine Tiger Woods teeing up at the 18th hole of the USPGA, he slices the ball it careers off to the right before bouncing off a tree, ricochet's off a stone walk bridge over a water trap and onto the fair way.
Or a competetion darts player throws a shot , misses the board completely but the dart bounces off the back board, rebounds off a concrete post and lands on the bullseye.
Ok these are pretty extreme examples, but bowlers all across the country do the bowling equivilent of this every day. There needs to be a MUCH higher emphasis placed on accuracy.
My thoughts are that if you throw a brooklyn strike you should be automatically penalised, and the strike changed to a five spare. How this would happen I don't know, but it would sure make people work on their accuracy a bit more.
In my most humble of opinions there is nothing worse than bowling in league or a tournament, hitting the pocket every shot in a game without a lot of luck and bowling a 220 and someone you are bowling with/against sprays the balls to all parts of the lane, jags some lucky strikes and throws 230. These same people when taken to task over their accuracy or lack thereof, usually retort with the old "Yeah, but it's still a strike up there" or "Yeah but I kicked your butt".
Somehow the rules of the game need to be changed to reward accuracy, and penalise those people who think the pocket is situated anywhere between the 4 pin and the 6 pin.
In closing I am not a great bowler and am prone to throwing many bad shots, but in saying that if I throw one of these I should not be rewarded for it. I know I get really cranky at myself when I throw a bad shot, even if it strikes, because inside I know it was a bad shot that did not hit where I was aiming.
Yet a lot of people don't care where they throw the ball as long as they strike, but when the strikes dry up it must be the lanes fault coz they are a good bowler and just because they were looking the ceiling at the point of release, their follow through did a Harold Holt (ie disappeared) or they drop their shoulder so much it drags across the approach shouldn't matter.
Cheers
Steve Hunt
I mean imagine Tiger Woods teeing up at the 18th hole of the USPGA, he slices the ball it careers off to the right before bouncing off a tree, ricochet's off a stone walk bridge over a water trap and onto the fair way.
Or a competetion darts player throws a shot , misses the board completely but the dart bounces off the back board, rebounds off a concrete post and lands on the bullseye.
Ok these are pretty extreme examples, but bowlers all across the country do the bowling equivilent of this every day. There needs to be a MUCH higher emphasis placed on accuracy.
My thoughts are that if you throw a brooklyn strike you should be automatically penalised, and the strike changed to a five spare. How this would happen I don't know, but it would sure make people work on their accuracy a bit more.
In my most humble of opinions there is nothing worse than bowling in league or a tournament, hitting the pocket every shot in a game without a lot of luck and bowling a 220 and someone you are bowling with/against sprays the balls to all parts of the lane, jags some lucky strikes and throws 230. These same people when taken to task over their accuracy or lack thereof, usually retort with the old "Yeah, but it's still a strike up there" or "Yeah but I kicked your butt".
Somehow the rules of the game need to be changed to reward accuracy, and penalise those people who think the pocket is situated anywhere between the 4 pin and the 6 pin.
In closing I am not a great bowler and am prone to throwing many bad shots, but in saying that if I throw one of these I should not be rewarded for it. I know I get really cranky at myself when I throw a bad shot, even if it strikes, because inside I know it was a bad shot that did not hit where I was aiming.
Yet a lot of people don't care where they throw the ball as long as they strike, but when the strikes dry up it must be the lanes fault coz they are a good bowler and just because they were looking the ceiling at the point of release, their follow through did a Harold Holt (ie disappeared) or they drop their shoulder so much it drags across the approach shouldn't matter.
Cheers
Steve Hunt
Evidently you have to take the crappy strike. More importantly you have to learn from it. Usually, i'm not happy with going brooklyn to strike mainly because it means I threw a bad shot. As long as I ask myself what happened to me when I threw the bad shot so I know what adjustments I have to make and then make them so I can reduce the amount of bad shots I make.
Later Da Cowman!
Later Da Cowman!
bowlrig
Just A Bowler
This sport is accuracy based but not to the extent that people speak of it. Too many variables, ie. lane conditions, come into play.
In all the books that I read on the sport of "Tenpin Bowling", not once have I seen the words that you must hit the pins here for a Strike.
All the definitions say: Strike- Score Keeping Term; a bowler has knocked down all ten pins with the first ball of the frame.
All of these books say that the most effective path to the pins for a strike causes the ball to hit the head pin from the right side (for right handers) at an approximate angle of 30 degrees. They do not say you must hit the pins there.
To compare what we do to Tiger Woods does not count. If you were to work out a comparison between a bowling average and a golfers handicap at your local golf club then maybe we start seeing some comparisons, a kick off a tree, a ball hit in the guts with a pitching wedge that goes at breakneck speed until it hit's a mound at the edge of the green and then pop's up onto the green. These things happen every week at the local penant tournaments but the golfer is not penalised a shot for being lucky.
If you go to bowl league and the adult bumper bowling lane condition is set up do you say bugger this and bowl an ultra deep inside shot with your highly polished plastic ball so that it is more of a challenge, I don't think so. But tell me if you do and I will commend you and understand your comments better.
Those that work on their approach, mental skills, attitude and knowledge will eventually bowl better scores more consistantly more often than the other bloke that just bowls and doesn't care how they fall.
One thing to remember though is that for the sport of Tenpin Bowling to survive and grow in ths country, we need all the bowlers we can get from the social bowler getting through the nose strikes and and maybe develop interest in bowling league, to the grass roots of fun league bowlers that get stikes any old how, to the high average bowlers that would prefer pocket to brooklyn, to the Trotter's, Frawly's, Frilingos' and then the Belmo's of the sport who do still on occasion go brooklyn to all be encourage not penalised for their efforts, even if a little luck was involvled.
I just wonder sometimes, if when people remember how their own game has evolved and developed over their time in this wonderful sport of ours.
Bit of a ramble but?
ROB
In all the books that I read on the sport of "Tenpin Bowling", not once have I seen the words that you must hit the pins here for a Strike.
All the definitions say: Strike- Score Keeping Term; a bowler has knocked down all ten pins with the first ball of the frame.
All of these books say that the most effective path to the pins for a strike causes the ball to hit the head pin from the right side (for right handers) at an approximate angle of 30 degrees. They do not say you must hit the pins there.
To compare what we do to Tiger Woods does not count. If you were to work out a comparison between a bowling average and a golfers handicap at your local golf club then maybe we start seeing some comparisons, a kick off a tree, a ball hit in the guts with a pitching wedge that goes at breakneck speed until it hit's a mound at the edge of the green and then pop's up onto the green. These things happen every week at the local penant tournaments but the golfer is not penalised a shot for being lucky.
If you go to bowl league and the adult bumper bowling lane condition is set up do you say bugger this and bowl an ultra deep inside shot with your highly polished plastic ball so that it is more of a challenge, I don't think so. But tell me if you do and I will commend you and understand your comments better.
Those that work on their approach, mental skills, attitude and knowledge will eventually bowl better scores more consistantly more often than the other bloke that just bowls and doesn't care how they fall.
One thing to remember though is that for the sport of Tenpin Bowling to survive and grow in ths country, we need all the bowlers we can get from the social bowler getting through the nose strikes and and maybe develop interest in bowling league, to the grass roots of fun league bowlers that get stikes any old how, to the high average bowlers that would prefer pocket to brooklyn, to the Trotter's, Frawly's, Frilingos' and then the Belmo's of the sport who do still on occasion go brooklyn to all be encourage not penalised for their efforts, even if a little luck was involvled.
I just wonder sometimes, if when people remember how their own game has evolved and developed over their time in this wonderful sport of ours.
Bit of a ramble but?
ROB
Thumpa
Junk Food Addict
Hey Tubby I don't agree with your therory of brookie as 5 spare
You know yourself that when the lanes aren't playing to someones liking, that misreading the lanes can sometimes lead to a brookie or 2
After all your ave would only be 170 instead of 210 if you counted your brookies as 5 spares
Kerri
You know yourself that when the lanes aren't playing to someones liking, that misreading the lanes can sometimes lead to a brookie or 2
After all your ave would only be 170 instead of 210 if you counted your brookies as 5 spares
Kerri
K
Killswitch Engage
Hey Rob,
You make some very pertinent points, which I take on board and see where you are coming from.
However, I bowl on 20+ year old timber lanes that are hand washed (seriously) and oiled by a 20 year old Century, so I wouldn't know what adult bumper bowling lanes are like But I get your point!!
Kerri,
That was the idea of my post, I knew people like you would arc up with brookie strikes being 5 spares, as you would be flat out cracking 100
Seriously though (just for a minute), regardless of the lane condition, if you misread the lane and bowl a bad shot, you should be penalised. I mean if a golfer misreads the wind or distance to the pin and uses the wrong club then he/she will be penalised the same as archery, darts, rifle shooting and other accuracy based sports which also have variables such as wind, trajectory, club choice etc.
Maybe if there was some penalty for errant shots, then 300's and 800's would have a lot more integrity than they have now a days.
But you know what they say - "opinions are like bottoms - everyone has one" and this is just mine.
You make some very pertinent points, which I take on board and see where you are coming from.
However, I bowl on 20+ year old timber lanes that are hand washed (seriously) and oiled by a 20 year old Century, so I wouldn't know what adult bumper bowling lanes are like
But I get your point!!Kerri,
That was the idea of my post, I knew people like you would arc up with brookie strikes being 5 spares, as you would be flat out cracking 100
Seriously though (just for a minute), regardless of the lane condition, if you misread the lane and bowl a bad shot, you should be penalised. I mean if a golfer misreads the wind or distance to the pin and uses the wrong club then he/she will be penalised the same as archery, darts, rifle shooting and other accuracy based sports which also have variables such as wind, trajectory, club choice etc.
Maybe if there was some penalty for errant shots, then 300's and 800's would have a lot more integrity than they have now a days.
But you know what they say - "opinions are like bottoms - everyone has one" and this is just mine.
Resurrection
Bowling Tragic
Yes a strike is a strike and spare is a spare but as with most bowlers I would rather have a pocket strike. But if I got $1 for every good ball I thgrew and left crap and gave back $1 for every bad shot that got a good result I would be a millionaire. So Yes I will take a cross over strike but I wouldnt be Satisfied.
Matthew Lambrick
Matthew Lambrick
Toshio
Videogame Master!
Think about this for a second.
How many people do you know have bowled a 300 game with out getting a little lucky?
Me I know NONE.
Every 300 game I've seen bowled (atleast 5) all had a bit of luck involved.
If you were peanalised for throwing a Brooklyn shot not very many people would get high scores would they!
I mean if you can get your shots to go into the pocket all day everyday, you wouldn't be here, you'd be making a living in the US right?
Luck is a Part of Tenpin Bowling, just leave it at that!
Toshio
How many people do you know have bowled a 300 game with out getting a little lucky?
Me I know NONE.
Every 300 game I've seen bowled (atleast 5) all had a bit of luck involved.
If you were peanalised for throwing a Brooklyn shot not very many people would get high scores would they!
I mean if you can get your shots to go into the pocket all day everyday, you wouldn't be here, you'd be making a living in the US right?
Luck is a Part of Tenpin Bowling, just leave it at that!
Toshio
Woza
Active Member
Maybe if there was some penalty for errant shots, then 300's and 800's would have a lot more integrity than they have now a days.
But on the same token everytime that you smashed the pocket and leave a 10 pin, or even worse a 7-10 then do you take that as a strike.
Make for some interesting tournament play. Stands up in the 10th frame needing a strike to win smashes the pocket to rack up a 10 pin - But wait he wins - we will count that as a strike as it hit the pocket.
This is being sarcastic I know but where do you draw the line.
I think that you have to take the good luck with the bad luck. You like to see every ball go into the pocket - but then if you are that good then you could also deliberately put every ball brooklyn
But on the same token everytime that you smashed the pocket and leave a 10 pin, or even worse a 7-10 then do you take that as a strike.
Make for some interesting tournament play. Stands up in the 10th frame needing a strike to win smashes the pocket to rack up a 10 pin - But wait he wins - we will count that as a strike as it hit the pocket.
This is being sarcastic I know but where do you draw the line.
I think that you have to take the good luck with the bad luck. You like to see every ball go into the pocket - but then if you are that good then you could also deliberately put every ball brooklyn
Resurrection
Bowling Tragic
As I said in an earlier post, luck is part of the game but if your were bowling a in the Melbourne cup and you got beaten by a bloke who threw a few through the nose and got a few singles left instead of splits or a few brookies and you left 4 10 pins from slamming the pocket you would be a bit pissed off because you threw a better game. Bowling is no longer a game of skill and accuracy, any idiot can throw a scratch average these days with all the ditches being laid down. Scoring high does not necessarily mean good bowling.
Matthew Lambrick
Matthew Lambrick
jockey
Member
We play a symetrical sport. The pins on the right are mirrors of the pins on the left. Thus the result by hitting the pocket is supposed to be the same as the result for going brooklyn.
However where you can reasonably expect to repeat a shot rolled to result in a pocket strike you cannot be so sure about repeating a shot rolled to result in a brooklyn strike. Unless of course you are a very sure and accurate bowler. Even with these tools you will still not score the same amount of strikes using these tactics as the natural angle away from the five pin will inevitably result in pin leaves.
We are here to score the maximum possible result and if that means brooklyns or lucky pins falls then so be it. Consistency is a big factor in this sport but should not be taken as the be all and end all.
If every time I walked into a bowling alley I could stand in the same spot on the approach and roll the ball over the same line to get a strike then I would have given this game away ages ago as being boring and easy.
One thing that keeps me involved is the inevitable battle against the prevailing conditions to score well enough to win or just be competitive.
Now if you are finding yourself hung up on other peoples good fortune or your lack of good fortune then you should be sitting back and analysing that rather than trying to downgrade their end results.
At the end of the day if you are an open level bowler your percentage of good fortune is always going to outway the bad. You will also be way out in front of of the lesser average bowler.
However where you can reasonably expect to repeat a shot rolled to result in a pocket strike you cannot be so sure about repeating a shot rolled to result in a brooklyn strike. Unless of course you are a very sure and accurate bowler. Even with these tools you will still not score the same amount of strikes using these tactics as the natural angle away from the five pin will inevitably result in pin leaves.
We are here to score the maximum possible result and if that means brooklyns or lucky pins falls then so be it. Consistency is a big factor in this sport but should not be taken as the be all and end all.
If every time I walked into a bowling alley I could stand in the same spot on the approach and roll the ball over the same line to get a strike then I would have given this game away ages ago as being boring and easy.
One thing that keeps me involved is the inevitable battle against the prevailing conditions to score well enough to win or just be competitive.
Now if you are finding yourself hung up on other peoples good fortune or your lack of good fortune then you should be sitting back and analysing that rather than trying to downgrade their end results.
At the end of the day if you are an open level bowler your percentage of good fortune is always going to outway the bad. You will also be way out in front of of the lesser average bowler.
