Hardest Leagues

[tenpinyo]

After having a discussion with a certain player who is regarded as one of the best players around atm i pose this question...
Which league is better...
League with the hardest conditions?
League with the highest scoring?

And Mods if you could turn this into a poll that would be awesome coz i have no idea how..cheers

 

[JWhitty]

I think it needs to be a balance, I like to work for my scores, but it is frustrating when the 140 av straight bowler (who is relatively unaffected by the conditions) shoots a 180 while I'm working hard for average...

 

[tonx]

Define hard?

I certainly won't enjoy bowling a league that is hard because there is 10 units of oil at 20ft. I will thoroughly enjoy a league that makes me have to throw the ball consistently to throw strikes (ie: sport league).

 

[clarky030]

I would have to say higher scoring. Bit bias seeing I am a 210+ avg bowler but points systems should be about scoring not fighting tough conditons.
No matter your average, achieving higher scores to gain points is fair to all.

 

[jockey]

My league at Chadstone requires bowlers to beat their immediate opponent head to head on handicap and teams also benefit with a point for each time a bowler bowls over average. So each game has 10 points (14 if you consider all eight bowlers can bowl over average for the game) available for the team to win.

[clarky030] I agree that higher scores are better but I would want those scores to be earn't and the conditions ensure you can't throw a strike with your eyes closed like some house shots in some centres at present.

It is pointless to bowl on cushy conditions if you can't actually maintain the average you currently hold on more challenging conditions. Bowlers who want this are just kidding themselves.

 

[tenpinyo]

my point revolves semi around the point that yes in tournaments the cream will always rise to the top over 20+ games however it seems that in leagues where conditions are easy (take that in anyway u wish) it seems that ur bowler who averages 180 in a tourny is beating (in league) the bowler who averages 220+ in tournies

 

[Nebster]

It depends on different people. The average league bowler who doesn't go away for any tournaments would prefer a league that shows high scores and they can easily keep a consistent average. On the other hand, there are bowlers like me who like to travel to different tournaments who prefer lanes that are harder. Because of this, if i throw a high score, i feel like i've earned it. Once again, it depends on the people your asking.

 

[Hammer]

I would say hard.

I used to think that bowling in centre’s where the house shot was huge, everybody could get there ball to the pocket and it would inflate your avg 10 to 20 pins was the way to go, But it took a while but realized that when you go into tournaments especially country town and sport patterns, your house shot wasn’t there. So here you are thinking you’re the man, when really couldn’t hit the side door of the barn, so to speak.

So really the harder the better to make yourself learn to throw consistent shots, Make your spares and really have to think about it. It’s great to get out of your comfort zone and work hard to find something that works in the centre or tournament that you re in.

 

[mattr]

well said hammer

 

[rpac23]

You do need a house with a consistent condition to fully see where you're at. I notice some of the 210+ average bowlers who post on this forum, cannot bowl their average in Liverpool. That being said, everyone who's bowled at Liverpool knows why. But the point i'm trying to make, no matter where you go, you will have a hard condition (or in some cases nothing but dry lane) so you will struggle to keep the same shot and not make the card.

 

[luke]

I would say hard.
I used to think that bowling in centre’s where the house shot was huge, everybody could get there ball to the pocket and it would inflate your avg 10 to 20 pins was the way to go, But it took a while but realized that when you go into tournaments especially country town and sport patterns, your house shot wasn’t there. So here you are thinking you’re the man, when really couldn’t hit the side door of the barn, so to speak.
So really the harder the better to make yourself learn to throw consistent shots, Make your spares and really have to think about it. It’s great to get out of your comfort zone and work hard to find something that works in the centre or tournament that you re in.

good post mate could not have said it better

 

[mattr]

the problem is that most league bowlers who do not bowl tournments want easy lanes to bowl league on to inflat egos

and they threaten to pull out of leagues igf the lanes are hard

i have seen it with my own eyes

 

[tenpinyo]

the problem is that most league bowlers who do not bowl tournments want easy lanes to bowl league on to inflat egos
and they threaten to pull out of leagues igf the lanes are hard
i have seen it with my own eyes

matt im not argueing with u but when it comes to punches the majority of bowlers dont have nearly as many revs and u and therefor when the lanes are flooded we struggle to even get into the pocket...now iv got no problems having to work so much harder to score well but ur right when the lanes are hard ppl are more likely to threaten to pull out of the league...

begs the question...which is goin to lead to a greater push in the sport...harder conditions in league or inflated egos?

 

[mattr]

its not about oily lanes my friend, its about a flatter pattern and to take te bounce shot away. The 3 centres i bowl in are all the same, the bounce shot is huge and some people have inflated averages

But when they bowl on a tournament there averages drop alot, and spit the dummy

to be honest i dont know the answer but this is way bowling will never be an olympic sport , but lets not go down that path

 

[hamster]

I would say hard.
I used to think that bowling in centre’s where the house shot was huge, everybody could get there ball to the pocket and it would inflate your avg 10 to 20 pins was the way to go, But it took a while but realized that when you go into tournaments especially country town and sport patterns, your house shot wasn’t there. So here you are thinking you’re the man, when really couldn’t hit the side door of the barn, so to speak.
So really the harder the better to make yourself learn to throw consistent shots, Make your spares and really have to think about it. It’s great to get out of your comfort zone and work hard to find something that works in the centre or tournament that you re in.

Ok, who are you and what have you done with the real "Hammer"?

Both have there values but it also depends on what the bowler wants out of it.

You can also not play in the track area at a high scoring alley to challange yourself as well. There's alot of options out there but the general league bowler bowls once maybe twice a week and really wants to go home happy so thats why they will choose easy over hard.

hammo

ps nice post team mate.

 

[Cam S]

i look at it a little bit differently. when i choose a league or a centre i like bowl where most of the bowlers are better than me (And before jase or hammer chime in and say thats not hard ill say it ) That way i really have to concerntrate hard on my game and make good shots to win.

 

[Big Paulie]

i like bowl where most of the bowlers are better than me

A bit like Manly and the NRL...

 

[Jasonguru]

There are a few answers to this question and some interesting points made so far. Since my return to the sport after 9 years away, about 2 years ago, i have seen he game change dramatically. From urethane gear, to reactive gear, wood lanes to synthetic etc, etc.

Back then i would have said high scoring being of more importance due to the facets of the game being tougher IMO, but now i would definately have to say i would prefer the patterns to be tougher in league play for several reasons but namely being for the benefit of using your brain more and not having house patterns set to allow for unco shots, and big swing areas.

The problem is however, that house patterns need to be fairly easy otherwise, as Matt said, you get threats of pull outs and people do end up pulling out of the league due to not coping with patterns and not scoring like they feel they should. They also feel they dont get value for money and the cost of bowling nowadays is dearer than ever and disposable income is a premium.

With our sport struggling to retain numbers and rebound back to better days, patterns in leagues do need to be relatively easy at this time and i feel will continue to be until such a point as centres get more bowlers into leagues and then can vary the patterns for the 200+ avg bowler and make it more challenging.

It needs to happen from my personal view point to improve my game for tournament purposes but it just wont at this time until leagues become more populous with numbers.

 

[Cam S]

A bit like Manly and the NRL...

looks for middle finger smiley

 

[jockey]

Costs is the big key here as a lot of you have already mentioned in this thread. However probably the biggest factor hurting our sport and the ability to have tougher patterns in league are the bowling proprietors.

Happy bowlers mean returning bowlers and smiling proprietors. Put down an easy pattern and the bowlers come, put down a challenging pattern and after awhile the bottom line suffers. As much as I want to challenge myself as a bowler if I was a proprietor of course the easy conditions would be layed down with bells on. Money talks and unfortunately that is the major thing holding back our sport, the fact it is at the mercy of the bowling proprietor.

I guess as Jasonguru said initially bowlers need cushy patterns not totally for ego but more to develop confidence.

Once they can maintain a 210 or 220+ average on cushy conditions over a season or two they have the confidence to at least try a tournament or two or even venture to a tougher house to see how they fare.

I guess in the end we need a good balance of both easy house and challenging conditions to enable the rebuilding process of our sport to continue in the long term.