ECCC Rolloffs
- Thread starter jockey
- Start date
Craig Ryan
Member
jockey
Member
Pete
Good to see you back having a go. (Same with you Cam).
I suspect the lack of numbers is due to a number of things.
The men I put down to the fact you have to nominate which may cause those bowlers who work at the fringe of whether they are open or graded class to forego bowling now they don't have two chances.
The price increase albeit small and the first one for long time is also a factor we can't ignore. Money is tight out there so every cent counts for some people.
I also wonder whether the fact it is in Melbourne this year is a reason for the lower than usual numbers. I always enjoy it more interstate and I think that is the same for everyone. Also people are reluctant to take precious leave time from work when not going away.
Anyway for whatever reason lets hope all who have put in turn up and give it a real go.
Craig Ryan
Member
How many all up?
results are on united website ...www.unitedtenpin.com.au
jockey
Member
Like to commend the UTBA Committee for having the foresight to implement a sports condition for the ECCC this year.
For the first time in a long time (since ECCC was held in centres with wooden lanes), the scoring was as it should be in this event, tough but playable.
This will go along way to restore the credibility the ECCC deserves to have that bowling on well blatant ditches had taken from it in recent years. I also hope they show strength in maintaining this condition throughout the trials and cup as proposed.
I did not perform as I would have expected to on the Winding Road condition (having bowled well on it before) along I'm sure with a number of my fellow competitors. However I was happy with the end result due to that being my first stint of more than four games in a considerably long time.
I suggest all participants attempt to get some practice on the pattern prior to the inaugurul UTBA championships at Dandenong next month. I'm sure there are a few centres that will accommodate such requests if enough games are going to be bowled during the practice session.
For the first time in a long time (since ECCC was held in centres with wooden lanes), the scoring was as it should be in this event, tough but playable.
This will go along way to restore the credibility the ECCC deserves to have that bowling on well blatant ditches had taken from it in recent years. I also hope they show strength in maintaining this condition throughout the trials and cup as proposed.
I did not perform as I would have expected to on the Winding Road condition (having bowled well on it before) along I'm sure with a number of my fellow competitors. However I was happy with the end result due to that being my first stint of more than four games in a considerably long time.
I suggest all participants attempt to get some practice on the pattern prior to the inaugurul UTBA championships at Dandenong next month. I'm sure there are a few centres that will accommodate such requests if enough games are going to be bowled during the practice session.
Craig Ryan
Member
I have always felt that bowling East Coast was always more about the social aspect and as such the lane conditions and the way I performed have never had an impact on my enjoyment of the week.
I don't understand the rational behind toughening the pattern in this instance. I recall previous East Coasts (as both competitor and spectator), and the atmosphere at the event is significantly higher when the scoring pace is higher. I won't forget the East Coasts where the lanes conditions were more reflective of a bowlers true ability - the atmosphere suffered and many a new bowler to this event never trialled again (on the basis that the event was not as "fun" as everyone had hyped it to be).
As an ECCC veteran of the "fairer sex" I was extremely disappointed with the conditions on the weekend. For a start it should have been noted on the entry form to allow bowlers time to prepare equipment or seek out practice if required. Considering also that the entry fee has gone up and that entries are down in all divisions, the last thing that the UTBA really need to be doing now is alienating the few remaining ECCC bowlers it has left. I am not saying that we want a great big fat ditch like previous years but just a fair condition that rewards good bowling with high scoring. Lets remember that this is ECCC and not Rachuig !!!!!!!!!!!!!! or however you spell it!!!!!!!!!!
scott
Member
Couldnt have said it better myself Mr Ryan
this could be just another nail in the coffin to east coast as it seems that all states are struggluing with numbers this year.
So I ask the question as to why? (hoping I get response)
I think this could be another bad decision from melbourne (much like the over paying of football players
) I mean it doesnt take Einstein to look at the scores and figure out it isnt such a good idea
Any way good luck and we will see u in melbourne in a few months lets hope commen sense prevales
i'm a junior bowler and i actually enjoyed bowling and being challenged on the sport condition instead of an easy house condition. i thought my games were pretty good except for the last two which was down to the wrong ball choice. it is not the lane condition but the ability of the bowler that dictates the scores and i'm sure alot of fun can still be had no matter what the score results are. after all isn't bowling supposed to be fun no matter what the score is.
jockey
Member
Now I agree with the fact that the ommission of the sports pattern from the entry form was not good as this could have effected peoples decision to bowl or not bowl.
If you sit down and look at it though the decision was made predominantly to prevent the thing that is killing our game and probably is one of the reasons for the lack of numbers this year. That problem is 'blatant cheating'. A lot of people may be polite and call it 'sandbagging' but lets call a spade a spade and get it out there, bowlers who blatantly cheat in order to make the graded team year after year. The rules of the ECCC require all three states to vote in a change and so as happens each year at least one of the three states havent got the balls to implement measures to stamp it out. The fact that until 'this year' (wait to see if they have the courage to see it through) the use of easy walled conditions just made the life of these cheats easy.
Well for once something is being done to stop this blatant practice, and rightly so. The easiest way to do that was to employ a sports condition which causes a bowler to bowl to their ability in the trials from ball one. Next year if this continues interstate then we should return to the qualifying format for Adult Male bowlers of not having to nominate a division and being eligible to make either the open or graded teams as I think the Sports Condition will help eliminate the problem that this change was made to address.
Yes the social part of EC is one of the reasons people return year upon year but to me wanting to compete and win is what EC is all about not the socialising during the week. Thats just a bonus. The atmosphere is much better than Rachuig because you have all bowling abilities and age groups represented. You in a lot of cases have three or even four generations of families competing during the week which certainly promotes support. You also do not have the elitist personas that some of the Rachuig competitors portray.
If you sit down and look at it though the decision was made predominantly to prevent the thing that is killing our game and probably is one of the reasons for the lack of numbers this year. That problem is 'blatant cheating'. A lot of people may be polite and call it 'sandbagging' but lets call a spade a spade and get it out there, bowlers who blatantly cheat in order to make the graded team year after year. The rules of the ECCC require all three states to vote in a change and so as happens each year at least one of the three states havent got the balls to implement measures to stamp it out. The fact that until 'this year' (wait to see if they have the courage to see it through) the use of easy walled conditions just made the life of these cheats easy.
Well for once something is being done to stop this blatant practice, and rightly so. The easiest way to do that was to employ a sports condition which causes a bowler to bowl to their ability in the trials from ball one. Next year if this continues interstate then we should return to the qualifying format for Adult Male bowlers of not having to nominate a division and being eligible to make either the open or graded teams as I think the Sports Condition will help eliminate the problem that this change was made to address.
Yes the social part of EC is one of the reasons people return year upon year but to me wanting to compete and win is what EC is all about not the socialising during the week. Thats just a bonus. The atmosphere is much better than Rachuig because you have all bowling abilities and age groups represented. You in a lot of cases have three or even four generations of families competing during the week which certainly promotes support. You also do not have the elitist personas that some of the Rachuig competitors portray.
tonx
New Member
While I can see both sides of the debate, my question to the board is the following (and please view it as a question, not an opinion):
In a "roll-off" type format, where competitors are bowling for a shirt with their states name on it, what difference does it make if you average 250 or 150 as long as you make the team?
Is it ego, self-confidence, or another factor? Maybe you feel that your chances of making the team are hurt or helped by tougher or easier conditions?
In a "roll-off" type format, where competitors are bowling for a shirt with their states name on it, what difference does it make if you average 250 or 150 as long as you make the team?
Is it ego, self-confidence, or another factor? Maybe you feel that your chances of making the team are hurt or helped by tougher or easier conditions?
Craig Ryan
Member
The "sandbaggers" will still shoot around there "average" on a sports pattern then (i.e. 15 - 20 pins below their true average).
Unfortunately it's a damned if you do damned if you don't situation. One way to solve the sandbagging issue to reduce the impact that it can have (by reducing the handicapping percentage to say 70% or even less). The only issue is that the bowlers who are legitimately a 140 average have a reduced chance of making the team and that is far from fair.
Unfortunately I'm not sure there is a way to prevent "sandbaggers". Sports conditions are one way, but won't they have a negative impact on most peoples averages?
It is quite sad that people need to resort to blatant cheating. It is wide spread and a lot of people in the bowling community know exactly who takes part in "sandbagging".
I do look forward to seeing the averages that bowlers are on. As it is this (as opposed to the easiness of patterns) that will kill East Coast in the end.
I have made quite a large number of friends through East Coast - that doesn't mean they shouldn't be held accountable if they are also taking part in these practices. I await the averages with interest.
scott
Member
Terry I have a masive issue with what you have said here as I am bowling in a leauge that uses the sports patterns therory and let me tell you its garbage I am ashamed on what my average is currently and i am also embrassed that I have to nominate for the graded side because I am not a graded bowler so explain to me how having the sports patterns will fix these so called sandbaggers all this has done is ruined the fun side of east coast
And Tonx as for your "bowling for a shirt with your states name on it" comment i find that very offensive and in very bad taste and what your saying that you would be more than happy to make a scratch mens side averaging 170 (pigs Ass) I bowl to represent my state not just a shirt and i enjoy it
