2008 and beyond, league listing and participants ideas

[JWhitty]

My suggestion is to have a list of all the leagues available for each centre who wish to participate....

They could then post the general format and costs involved for all to see so that the choice is made easy. People could then put their name down to join as well

I've taken this from the suggestions board, because I wanted to "go for a jog" with it (not quite running with it... )

Suppose such a system existed where various people could list leagues and their vital stats...

Suppose then that bowlers could register, and track their own stats (this would probably require entering your own scores, unless a little more work was done to make it league secretarial AND the league secretaries used it!)

Further, this system would maintain statistical data (don't know what... suggestions?). Perhaps if it was indeed used for secretarial, a small 'treasury' module could be added so the prizefund was known, and therefore a standings table could be advertised with estimated payouts

It would've been helpful if I'd read this in time for 2008 reformation meetings to be added, but we could be ready for 2009!

Ideas, public?

 

[tonx]

USBC has a system that tells averages, honor scores, leagues bowled in and achievements.

Perhaps the system you seek could be modelled of theirs?

http://members.bowl.com/SearchUSBC/SearchMembers.aspx

 

[JWhitty]

Ah yes, I'm familiar with that.

The problem there Tonx is we have to approach this backwards, the US was already a popular and better funded organisation with a great deal of information in their systems, the problem they addressed with that system was how to release it to the public.

The problem we need to address, is how to aggregate it all in the first place. If TBA was better funded and supported, I'm sure they'd have a lot of this information in a well maintained system which we could just write a public front-end to, but I highly doubt that much information is available.

To make something like this work, it will be the leagues and the bowlers who will have to drive it, not the national body. I have thought of trying to get the membership list from TBA so I could start something like this but obviously privacy issues abound there. I did try asking them to include an opt-out option for 2008 so that I could get the list unless you specify to leave your name off it, but I don't think that went anywhere... They don't like me much these days

The other problem of course is that TBA hasn't the money to commission a system like that, it would cost a lot to be done professionally. I am considering getting this moving because it's my own time, I like to help the sport, and I can see the revenue potential down the road... With that in mind I'm sure the hell not going to give it away after I do it...

 

[wchester]

This is somethat that the TBA 'should' do for its membership but 'won't' do because it wouldn't be a profit making venture straight away.

Thank you Jeff, for your willingness to undertake this vital record-keeping project. If I can help in any way, just let me know.

While were on the subject of statistics, would it be too much too ask of AMF/TBA to publish a bowler earnings list for the 2008 ranked tournaments?

 

[JWhitty]

This is somethat that the TBA 'should' do for its membership but 'won't' do because it wouldn't be a profit making venture straight away.
Thank you Jeff, for your willingness to undertake this vital record-keeping project. If I can help in any way, just let me know.

Actually if TBA spent its money on this kind of a project, we'd all complain that they weren't doing anything else. I don't entirely blame them for this lacking in the sport, they don't have the resources.

Hold onto the gratitudes, I haven't undertaken it yet - just throwing ideas around. It would also support a bit of a joint venture that's just budding between myself and one of the UK members here - if we had one central store it would make creating a difinitive tournament product much easier...

As for helping, depending on how much data we'd want to retrofit, there might be a lot of data entry to do

 

[tonx]

A few things to address.

The revenue would and could be based off advertising, just like every other sport. The problem with this sport is it is far too self funded. If there was a stats page anywhere near the quality of the USBC database, advertisors would be climbing over themselves to be all over that page. Whoever owns the rights to the program, owns the rights to the revenue.

Building the database. The database could be built within almost any existing structure that allows membership details to be recorded. Even Vbulletin has hacks that could be modified to sustain that type of database. Getting something up initially in Beta stage to test throughout 2008 would be a good foundation to build on, even if it comes across as quite basic.

The database *could* be backed by the Proprietors association in some partership form. Then the centres would be responsible for providing the data to an administrator to process. If it is left up to each individual league, you give an option to participate. If its backed by each and every centre, it can't possibly fail.

In my opinion, the Proprietors would be a much safer bet than the TBA at this point in time. The TBA could be asked to support the case, but I think their priorities should be based on getting their infrustructure right first.

I too, would be more than happy to help in this type of project wherever I can. Its possibilities are endless, and the idea a sound one...

Good luck mate!

 

[Vaughnn]

It is only the size of this project that have stopped me for several years.

It would be able to be self funded, as like tonx says, advertisers are happy to pay. On top of this, you could run phantom leagues and tournaments, with a payment to the site admins, a percentage to go to running the site.

Yes tonx is correct the proprieters is where the system is best supplied data from, and they could do daily or weekly uploads. There would then be a reliance for a common key for bowlers that bowl in numerous leagues. But all centres run software which is capable of exports of some type.

The privacy is not even an issue, as unless people say "publish my data" it can stay in the dbase, but just be used in general statistcial reports.

So you end up with an Australian wide record of all league scores, and you could then display the highest average centres, all bowlers with 200+, and every week you could dynamically display lists of high scores / honour roll

So how about starting a little group to work on this. If it is a php based system, I am happy to do the original hosting for nada.

Vaughnn

 

[JWhitty]

If there was a stats page anywhere near the quality of the USBC database, advertisors would be climbing over themselves to be all over that page. Whoever owns the rights to the program, owns the rights to the revenue.

Ah, a man with vision...

On the whole I agree with you Tonx, and I hope to be able to Alpha something in a few weeks... I think to progress through the Alpha we will need a few volunteers with access to their league scores, to sit down and plug them in so we have some data to play with - but it's a way off that

 

[JWhitty]

If it is a php based system, I am happy to do the original hosting for nada.

Thanks for the offer mate but this is going to be looking forward with newer technologies (pffft, I'm a Microsoft developer, deal with it )

Seriously though, my thoughts are churning around architecture, databases and code libraries, interface is fairly superficial (as evidenced by my current tournament software site... it really needs some attention). And of course how to integrate my current tournament software into it... Soon I will conquer this measly planet!

I do like where you're going though, centres ranked by highest averages, mean averages (that is, the average of their bowlers averages), most participants, lowest lineage (perhaps this might drive some competition in reducing our costs over the longer term...)

I knew there was a reason I shelled out the extra few dollars for the Quad Core server last month. Okay, I'm officially going to draw up some conceptual designs then, the support is obviously high.

 

[Phluff]

If you could get the centres on board then it wouldn't be too hard to get data on a weekly basis. Most centres these days are running Computer Score which allows for an easy export of league records that could be emailed in a few mins.

 

[JWhitty]

Well just to update those interested parties on this, I've had some discussions with AMF during the year.

Without wanting to throw stones, AMF rejected the plan and they are well within their rights. It's also not that surprising from a business perspective;

1. I was asking for access to their database, that's a lot of trust. Consider how many people's personal information is in there. This is a risk to them. Privacy and security concerns abound.
2. They are implementing an improved leagues system on their own website in the extremely near future apparently. Obviously they want to drive traffic to their own site, not mine (fair call)

So I guess I'll just have to add a league secretary program to my list of things to do in the next decade, hand it around for free and have it upload like the championships software does...

Jeff
http://championships.globaltenpin.com/